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CZ’s TAC 15 CHN/JPN/KOR | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| The Real CZ Senior Member United States Joined 5641 days ago 1069 posts - 1495 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 689 of 844 06 August 2013 at 12:20pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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So, I'm in the 6WC and I'm still experimenting with how to learn Mandarin. I've tried adding single words to Anki and making MCDs for grammar and hanzi, but found it too boring and cumbersome, especially for the hanzi. The only reason I used Anki is because it helped me move from the beginner to intermediate levels in both Korean and Japanese back in early 2010, so I thought it might work again with Mandarin. However, after just a few days, I give up with the SRS. It's something I can do short term, but far too boring to do long term. I had also tried using the scriptorium method to learn sentences better, but it's too boring sitting down for long periods of time writing stuff down.
As of now, my plan is to go through Teach Yourself Chinese and Assimil Chinese, listening to the lessons multiple times until I understand them. I'll go over the vocab lists and grammar points afterward and then listen to a lot of lessons (usually Assimil lessons) while I go out for a walk. Along with this, I plan to read out loud the dialogues many times, mutilating Chinese pronunciation in the process. I find that after listening a lot, reading out loud the dialogues makes it that much easier to remember. Plus, I want to rectify the decision of not speaking at all when I was in the beginning stages of Korean. At least with Mandarin, I will be practicing the dialogues a lot. I also bought a comprehensive grammar of Chinese. I should be done with both TY and Assimil by the end of the week, and then I will move to the grammar book, reinforcing the common structures and learning the intermediate and advanced structures. I will most likely go through it in a few weeks with a basic understanding of Chinese grammar, but will continue consulting it to improve on my weaknesses. I still use my Korean grammar books often, going over my weaknesses. I will read the sentences out loud, since that will just give me more pronunciation practice and I will remember the sentence better if I say it out loud as opposed to reading. For Hanzi, I have Jim Harbaugh's Chinese Characters: A Genealogy and Dictionary. It has 4000+ characters and a lot of vocab words. What I will most likely do is divide my time between writing down the characters to remember the meaning and pronunciation, and then a second wave where I read (out loud) the vocabulary associated with the character in order to better remember the meaning and pronunciation of the character. If I actually remember the vocab words, that's great, but I don't intend to study these words so that I can understand them/use them, but more as a crutch to simply remember the character meanings and readings. For TV, I've been watching a mixture of Taiwanese and Chinese dramas, though I prefer Taiwanese dramas at this point. For music, I'm still searching for artists to listen to, but for now, Jolin Tsai will suffice. Jolin Tsai - Agent J (More like Agent Unf) For reading (in which I will be doing a lot of probably starting week 3 or 4 of the challenge) will be started here: Taiwan's version of Next Media. I'm a fan of their videos on YouTube, so I'll be reading their news and watching their videos. For reading, I'll most likely have to re-read each article several times in order for the words to start sticking since I'll still be at the beginner level. In Korean, I can read an article and look up the words, remembering a decent percentage of them, allowing me to move onto the next article. I'll probably have to do narrow reading in Chinese for a few months, sticking to entertainment and general news so that I can read the common words enough times before moving to other areas such as politics, business, and sports, and then later onto comics/books. Edited by The Real CZ on 06 August 2013 at 12:22pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| kujichagulia Senior Member Japan Joined 4839 days ago 1031 posts - 1571 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Portuguese | Message 690 of 844 07 August 2013 at 2:25am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I really hope you can find a way to review vocabulary and sentences. I'm still working on the best way for me to do Anki. For me, it has definitely become boring, even though I happily used it for almost a year. But I'm experimenting with making myself do just 5 minutes a day, because at least that is better, to me, than doing no vocabulary review at all. If I had dedicated time each day in a place, with a desk, that was peaceful and quiet, I would do Goldlists instead. But alas...
Jim Harbaugh, the San Francisco 49ers football coach, wrote a book on the genealogy of Chinese characters? That makes me even more of a fan! :) Edited by kujichagulia on 07 August 2013 at 2:27am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| The Real CZ Senior Member United States Joined 5641 days ago 1069 posts - 1495 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 691 of 844 07 August 2013 at 11:46am | IP Logged | ||||||||
For now, my plan of attack is to go through wordlists while reciting them out loud (or silently recite them if I'm around others). My Teach Yourself book has wordlists at the end of each chapter, which I find extremely useful since I can still only understand 80% or so even after listening to the dialogues several times while reading the dialogue and the translation. For sentences, those will come through my Teach Yourself book and my Chinese grammar book. Yesterday I tried reading an article about Jolin Tsai, and I had to look up every word except her name (her name is actually in the PeraPera popup dictionary haha). I think I will hold off on reading until later in the challenge. I believe I need to go through my hanzi book, which was written by Rick Harbaugh haha. I have football season on the mind, so that must have been why I wrote Jim instead. Anyway, my plan of attack summarized: go through the word lists as many times as needed in my Teach Yourself book, HSK vocabulary spreadsheets and Hanzi book. Go through the Hanzi book to get a rough idea of each character. First I'll learn their meanings, and the vocabulary studying should help reinforce the reading and meaning. While doing this, keep going through TY course, listening to the dialogues and reading out loud the dialogues until I'm satisfied. After this, go through my grammar course, reading out loud the example sentences. Keep watching lots of dramas and movies. I believe doing this will put me on solid footing to attack more native content after the 6WC. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| The Real CZ Senior Member United States Joined 5641 days ago 1069 posts - 1495 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 692 of 844 02 September 2013 at 5:31pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I dropped out of the 6WC because one) I hate recording the time for every little
activity I do and two) school started. I started Chinese class and good God, this shit moves way too slow. I'm only taking the class because I needed a four-hour class to graduate this December. The teaching assistant is Chinese, so I will end up getting help on pronunciation. Luckily there's no real homework yet for the class except to study the material for class ahead of time. Since I already went through the first 12 chapters of Teach Yourself Chinese (where all of the grammar points in that book are covered), there's really nothing new to me, so I spend more time just studying what I want. I've been using MCDs for grammar and some vocabulary study, but mainly grammar. I think I'll just stick with massive amounts of reading for vocabulary study, and if there are some passages in an article that are giving me trouble, I'll probably MCD those. Using MCDs to acquire vocabulary takes a of time, so I don't think I'll rely on them too much outside of grammar structures. I was just chatting to Warp in Korean before we switched to English and I commented that his Korean has gotten a lot better. Lots of input seems to have helped him overall, but I told him that he should try MCDs to work on specific structures. The next post will contain the MCD examples since this post is getting too long as is. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5527 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 693 of 844 02 September 2013 at 5:52pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Like I posted on Twitter, it must have been input that helped as my output has been mostly non-existent lately...hehe :)
1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| The Real CZ Senior Member United States Joined 5641 days ago 1069 posts - 1495 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 694 of 844 02 September 2013 at 6:05pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Here is how I make MCDs, which I mainly use for grammar. When I review the cards, I do
not test myself. I use MCDs as an "assisted reader", because the cloze function helps narrrow in on specific points in a sentence, so I don't really see the need to test myself. (Besides, testing myself takes 3x longer and it's pretty boring considering how many cards I have to review.) Here's an example for Chinese, my weakest language. {{c1::师傅}}{{c2::传给}}我{{c3::不少}}{{c4::技艺}} shi1fu chuan2 gei3 wo3 bu4shao3 ji4yi4. The master (worker) passed on to me many skills. This is a sentence I took from my grammar book. The section I'm in is about the character 给 and how its function (by itself and attached to another verb). Here, the first, third and fourth cloze deletions are words I don't know/characters I can't read yet. The second is the actual grammar point. For Japanese, I have yet to add this card to Anki, but here's how it would go. 私はその晩{{c1::興奮(こうふん)}}{{c2::の}}{{c3:: あまり}}{{c4:寝(ね)られなかった}}。 I was so excited that I couldn't sleep that night. あまり＝because of too much ~; because ~ too much; so ~ that ~ The grammar explanation would go in the extra field. c2 and c3 are the grammar points. Since the structures uses "no" before "amari" when coming after a noun, I put a cloze deletion around both to remind myself of that. A Korean example: 그 일에 열중하{{c1::다가 보니}}, 시간 가는 줄 몰랐습니다. Once I got wrapped up in it, I lost all track of time. Vst-다(가) 보니 = as a result of doing it over a period of time, one discovers... 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5527 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 695 of 844 02 September 2013 at 6:36pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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So the parts in braces and the grammar rule(s) appear on the answer side (supposedly with one card created for each set of braces) and the rest (including the translation) is on the question side right? I could see that being useful as that would let me switchover into active cards (vs. my current deck which is 100% passive) while still including the context necessary to make them less confusing to answer (which can be a big problem with active cards). Edited by Warp3 on 02 September 2013 at 6:38pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| The Real CZ Senior Member United States Joined 5641 days ago 1069 posts - 1495 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Korean | Message 696 of 844 02 September 2013 at 7:49pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Yes, the English is also on the question side. So, with the Korean card, it would show
up like this when I reviewed it: 그 일에 열중하[...], 시간 가는 줄 몰랐습니다. Once I got wrapped up in it, I lost all track of time. And when I clicked on "Good", it will look like this, with the "다가 보니" being highlighted in blue. 그 일에 열중하다가 보니, 시간 가는 줄 몰랐습니다. Once I got wrapped up in it, I lost all track of time. After I answer it, the "other" box will show up at the bottom. "Vst-다(가) 보니 = as a result of doing it over a period of time, one discovers..." For example, I could make two cards (or more if you wanted to be super specific) out of this. I could have it be like: 그 일에 열중하{{c1::다가}}{{c2::보니}}, 시간 가는 줄 몰랐습니다. Once I got wrapped up in it, I lost all track of time. Vst-다(가) 보니 = as a result of doing it over a period of time, one discovers... Just so I know that 다가 is attached to the verb and that 보니 comes after it. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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