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Japanese from scratch TAC 2015 東亜 | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| g-bod Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5974 days ago 1485 posts - 2002 votes  Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, German | Message 1121 of 1702 21 October 2013 at 6:50pm | IP Logged | ||
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It's hard to tell the difference at full speed. But in real life (and even in exam questions)
there's always more context to help you figure things out. If someone says they went to the hospital for a haircut, you probably misheard! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| kraemder Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5176 days ago 1497 posts - 1648 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Japanese | Message 1122 of 1702 21 October 2013 at 9:16pm | IP Logged | ||
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Yeah that's what I tried to explain to her. Her sentence had no context and was designed for me to hear the difference etc. I remember a year ago at my community college, I commented to my professor that I could hardly tell the difference and he was like, I must fix this! They are nothing alike! He proceeded to repeat the two over and over and the class stared at him uncomprehendingly. Nobody could hear it really. Maybe a little.
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| dampingwire Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4657 days ago 1185 posts - 1513 votes Speaks: English*, Italian*, French Studies: Japanese | Message 1123 of 1702 22 October 2013 at 1:20am | IP Logged | ||
I'd expect there to be context in real life, but I can come up with simple sentences where there is none: 美容院へ行く. I'm sure that there's at least one JPOD101 lesson that compares and contrasts these two words. I think it's in the beginner lessons, which cuts it down to just ~200 or so :-) I did find these on forvo http://it.forvo.com/word/%E7%BE%8E%E5%AE%B9%E9%99%A2/#ja http://it.forvo.com/word/byouin/#ja but they're pretty artificial (different speakers, just one word). There are plenty of similar examples that differ only in pitch accent. 買う and 飼う also differ only in pitch accent. I expect that with lots of practice you can get past this. (I haven't yet, so I can only hope that it's possible!). I remember a Royal Society Christmas Lecture on the TV a few years ago where the lecturer started out by playing some pairs of words and asking who could hear the difference. One was a word pair in Hindi and the only audience member who could hear the difference was a girl who spoke Hindi at home. The sounds were played several times and I certainly could not hear the difference. Yet it was obviously as clear as day to this girl. I do know how your professor felt. I've tried to teach people how to pronounce Italian words and based on how they stuff up the simplest of vowels I swear they're just trying to wind me up :-) I long for the day that someone tells me I'm ready for N3 listening and I can graduate to not hearing subtle nuances rather than whole sentences :-) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| g-bod Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5974 days ago 1485 posts - 2002 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, German | Message 1124 of 1702 22 October 2013 at 8:57am | IP Logged | ||
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Japanese seems to be rich with homophones and you can't always count on pitch accent to help
you out. I guess that's why it's also rich with bad puns! As for minimal pairs, I haven't yet met a Japanese person who can differentiate between l and r with 100% accuracy either, although I know an advanced speaker who does a pretty good job of it most of the time. I think it's more important to practice getting the pronunciation right, or at least comprehensible, in these cases. Real life always comes with more clues. And even in your native language you mishear things at times. Even with the simple sentence example above, the only time I could imagine it causing trouble is in one of the quick response JLPT listening questions, and even then I doubt it. At least in the tests I've taken they seemed more preoccupied on grammar and appropriate politeness. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| kraemder Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5176 days ago 1497 posts - 1648 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Japanese | Message 1125 of 1702 25 October 2013 at 6:58am | IP Logged | ||
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I'll admit I haven't studied Japanese pitch accents at all. It sounds like you have... is it helpful? Should I be doing it?
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| kraemder Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5176 days ago 1497 posts - 1648 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Japanese | Message 1126 of 1702 27 October 2013 at 12:21am | IP Logged | ||
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Did some more lessons on JOI and I've determined that I probably should do some preparation if the lesson outline gives pages in Minna no Nihongo. My friend seems like she'll continue with the online lessons so that should be fun. And I'm feeling better regarding my car accident (I was hit while riding my bicycle - nothing broken just really sore)so I'm getting back into studying. I did some RTK review again today. My deck currently consists of the 500-1000 kanji and I'm about 180 kanji into it. It's going way slower than when I did it as a beginner for some reason lol. I think I was really motivated and excited that I was finally making some actual noticeable progress then whereas now, the benefit is still worth it, but the gains are much less than before since I now have a lot of kanji knowledge.. I totally get why people who didn't do RTK at the beginning just can't get into it later on in their studying. It's time consuming and you're questioning if it's even worth it.
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| cathrynm Senior Member United States junglevision.co Joined 6117 days ago 910 posts - 1232 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Finnish | Message 1127 of 1702 27 October 2013 at 2:45am | IP Logged | ||
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Yeah, that's me. RTK just seemed not Japanese-language-y enough for my tastes, I couldn't maintain motivation for it. Compared to other issues, I don't think I have such a big problem with Kanji anyway -- I don't think I saw any unknown Kanji last time I failed the N2.
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| kraemder Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5176 days ago 1497 posts - 1648 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Japanese | Message 1128 of 1702 27 October 2013 at 9:05am | IP Logged | ||
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Did you just skip the N3 or did you pass it before taking on the N2? If I don't pass the N3 this time I don't
know what I'll do... Besides cry lol. I probably will retake the N3. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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