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luke TAC15 Français - [TAC14] Deuxième | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5525 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes  Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 113 of 439 15 January 2013 at 3:15am | IP Logged | ||
Even though I never actually finished the course, I'm quite fond of Business French. It has the typical Assimil humor, and it's by far the most "conversational" audio that I've heard in an Assimil advanced course. I hope you enjoy your new acquisition! 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7198 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 114 of 439 15 January 2013 at 10:48am | IP Logged | ||
Merci bien monsieur ! I agree completely that the audio is much more "conversational". I think that will be helpful, as well as the fact that the lessons are a bit longer and have the unity of a conversation and storyline. I went through chapitre 1 this morning. I truncated the silence with Audacity, which doesn't make a huge difference in my study, but does move things along at a slightly faster clip for the question/answer part of the lesson. The original recording leaves a silent stretch I suppose for the student to formulate an answer before hearing it. I actually used the q/a part to improve my comprehension of the whole chapter, rather than as a test. My approach today, which seems good is: 1) Listen to lesson and read the French, trying to figure out what is going on. 2) Let the recording repeat, and this second time, read the English translation. 3) Let the recording repeat a third time, this time read the notes in English, which provide some cultural background. 4) Listen again, reading the French. That's a 25 minute or so commitment to a lesson. For the moment, I'm ignoring the non-recorded material in the lesson, but I'm definitely in the camp of going through a course like more than once. E.G., don't make it too hard the first time, just make progress and finish at the one lesson per day pace, even if later lessons may not be "mastered". Once upon a time, I was in the overlearning camp and generally trying to master things before moving on. For me, I now think that's an ineffective approach. How I do it now lets me entertain course wanderlust in an effective and non-disruptive way. Writing the opening <<Merci bien monsieur !>> reminds me of a question that has been in the back of my mind for some time, which is, when did French start putting a space after the sentence and before the question mark or exclamation point? About French shows the space I'm talking about, but doesn't say anything about it. Questions like that don't always have to be answered right away. Sometimes the excitement of knowing there's more to do in the learning bank adds a bit of excitement to the process. But I wonder, did the "imortals" at one point say, let's add a space before the question mark, etc. Just looking at French Without Toil, compared to New French with Ease, one sees the change in puncuation. Edited by luke on 15 January 2013 at 10:59am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7198 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 115 of 439 16 January 2013 at 1:51pm | IP Logged | ||
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Day 2 with Assimil Business French. Today, I used the following approach, which makes sense to me because of the importance of review, etc. Basically I go through the current lesson 3 times, and the previous lesson once:
1) Listen to the audio and read the translation. 2) Listen to the audio again and read the notes and look at the cartoon. Use extra time to read other parts of the lesson that aren't recorded. 3) Listen to the audio a third time and read the French. 4) Listen to the previous lesson and read the French. Occasionally glance at the English for an unknown word. So the study time is the same as day 1, about 25 minutes. The whole study session is engaging, which I believe is very important. While cruising this site and writing my log, I'm listening to lessons 1 and 2 (of 40) in the background. I'm also enjoying the storyline of the course. It's educational and also some human interest elements. By the way, the course hasn't had any grammatical points yet, and I don't know that it will, nor am I bothered by that fact. I'm definitely in the camp of learn by observation, and from that aspect, the course is super because of the greater content (in terms of audio) than the other Assimil courses, the engaging storyline, and I get more out of notes that give background on a word or institution than a note that gives me the conjugation of a verb in various tenses, or a variety of idioms or other usages of a word that isn't recorded. Not that grammar notes aren't helpful, but Business French approach suits me better. It's an advanced course though. Perhaps not the best course to start with, even for an observational learner, although I also find Using French more pleasant than French Without Toil, although the former course is ostensibly more difficult. I.E., Using French covers more topics in depth and doesn't weigh the student down with as much grammar. The jury is still out on New French with Ease. It also has less grammar. I'm doing earlier lessons, so the course is at a simpler point. Today I did lesson 20 and the normal review of the previous six lessons. I can see that FWT will take me further, but FWT is grammar heavy and has less of the content recorded than the other courses, which is detrimental to its effectiveness pour moi. Edited by luke on 17 January 2013 at 2:07am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7198 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 116 of 439 19 January 2013 at 11:09am | IP Logged | ||
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Today is day 5 with Assimil Business French (BF) and I'm continuing the 4 step approach in the previous post. I'm enjoying the course.
I'm marching forward one lesson per day in the other three Assimil courses. I know I could give much better attention to French Without Toil than I have been the last month or so, but have resigned myself to a minimum of two trips through the course. Latest thinking is after the last lesson (140), continue with a lesson review of the current "active wave" lesson, which I'm not doing as an active wave, but just as a review. Then after this trailing passive wave, restart the course at lesson 50 for another pass. That's where things started to come apart a bit and it becomes more difficult to shadow the lesson through on the first go. Hmm, and I guess if I restart the course at lesson 50, I could follow that with a review passive wave, so the early lessons (1-49) would get their own little attention. The New French with Ease lesson of the day is 23 (of 113). Here I also listen to the 6 previous lessons. I've been shadowing the 7 lessons a day in the car. So far, so good. I also shadow 7-10 lessons in FWT and Using French most days, although they are sometimes harder to shadow. It depends on the lesson. Using French (UF) has been easier than French Without Toil lately, but that is probably because this is the second thorough trip through the former, and only the first thorough trip through the later. By the way, today is lesson 87 in FTW, lesson 23 in NFWE, lesson 5 in BF, and lesson 13 in UF. Edited by luke on 19 January 2013 at 11:13am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7198 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 117 of 439 22 January 2013 at 12:26am | IP Logged | ||
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I'm going to downshift in my French studies so I can prepare for an Esperanto conference that's about 6 months out. Since I still want to progress in French, I've come up with the following approach.
French Without Toil Continue with one new lesson per day, but only review 4 previous lessons instead of 9. Although I've been listening to the 10 lessons each day, I haven't been so diligent with FTW for a month or so. I'm not going to give up though. By the way, today is lesson 89 of 140. New French With Ease Also continue with one new lesson per day, but only review a couple of previous lessons, rather than 6. I'm still in the easy part of the book. Today was lesson 24 of 113. Using French Continue with one lesson per day, and review the previous lesson. This is my second slow trip though the book, and there is still plenty to get out of it. I had been listening to the current lesson several times throughout the day, and generally the previous few lessons at least once. The new standard will be only about half as much time on this book. Generally hit the current lesson and notes good once, then review the previous lesson and the current lesson later in the day. Today was lesson 15 of 70. Business French This is my first time through the course. Continue with 1 new lesson per day. The study time here will drop from about 20 minutes to 15. Just twice through the new lesson, and once through the previous lesson for review. Today was lesson 7 of 40. My background listening and shadowing in the car will similarly be downshifted. Some almost every day, but probably just the current lesson and review sets. Edited by luke on 22 January 2013 at 12:29am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7198 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 118 of 439 07 February 2013 at 3:40pm | IP Logged | ||
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Here's an update on the downshift in French studies:
French Without Toil has been suffering a bit as far as my attention to the lessons, especially the non-recorded portions, which is about 1/2 of each lesson. I'm on lesson 106 of 140 today and I do glance back at the 2nd wave lesson and use it as a review. I'm not doing a translation in the 2nd wave. New French with Ease is still pretty easy. Today I'm on lesson 40 of 113. My comprension is good. I can shadow most lessons pretty well. The fill in the blank exercises are generally easy too. I review the audio portion of the previous 5-7 lessons most days. Using French is much easier this second time through. The notes still seem "new" at times. They are generally helpful though. I do one lesson per day, and read and listen to the previous lesson each day. Once a week, I review the previous 7 lessons, but that usually doesn't coincide with the "review" (divisible by 7) lesson. I generally read the 7th lesson, but it doesn't my fire my imagination or grab my attention the way the normal lessons do. Today I'm on lesson 32 of 70. I can imagine repeating Using French again, but it may get bumped out by Business French, which has more to teach me at this point, since I've never gone all the way through it. Business French has fallen off the radar for a week or two. I got up through lesson 10 or 12 of 40, but feel I'm spreading myself too thin to continue with it while I'm really trying to focus on Esperanto. I continue the background listening and in the car shadowing of the 3 Assimil courses. Edited by luke on 07 February 2013 at 6:44pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7198 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 119 of 439 13 February 2013 at 8:07pm | IP Logged | ||
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With French in second place on my language priority list, here's where I've gone over the last week or so.
French Without Toil continues to suffer as I have lowered my daily goal to understanding the new daily dialogue and reviewing the audio for the previous 6 lessons or so. I also review the 2nd wave lesson by reading the whole lesson, but I don't do a translation or anything more than review and shadow the written and spoken lesson. I'm on lesson 112 of 140 today. New French with Ease is still going well. Today I'm on lesson 46 of 113. My comprehension is good and I can shadow most lessons pretty well when I'm following along in the book. Most of my book time is spent on the current lesson. Once a week or so, I do the 7 lesson audio review with the book. The fill in the blank exercises are mostly easy. I review the audio of the previous 5 lessons most days. Using French is going well this second time through too. I do one lesson per day, and read and listen to the previous lesson each day. Once a week, I review the previous 7 lessons, but that usually doesn't coincide with the "review" (divisible by 7) lesson. Today I'm on lesson 38 of 70. I'm thinking when I loop back for another wave through Using French, I'll make it a quick "reading the text" wave. E.G., read and listen to the lesson, but don't pay attention to the notes, and only listen to the lesson once. That way I could do more than one lesson per day, but mainly, it would give room for... Business French which fell off the radar a couple weeks ago after lesson 12. Edited by luke on 17 February 2013 at 11:44am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7198 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 120 of 439 20 February 2013 at 2:55pm | IP Logged | ||
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In the French front, this is what I have been doing over the last week.
French Without Toil - I've continued to march forward doing a new dialogue each day and reviewing the audio for a few previous lessons. Today I'm on lesson 119 of 140. Interestingly, the book mentions starting a 3rd wave in lesson 119 if things aren't completely clear yet in wave 2. I'm continuing a review with the 2nd wave. There, I'm on lesson 63. If I were to start a third wave tomorrow, I'd be on lesson 1 of course. I think it would be helpful, as the wave 2 lessons aren't as completely clear and almost boring as they should be when one is "done" with them. The thing is, I'm starting to itch for more interesting material. New French with Ease is going fine. Today I'm on lesson 53 of 113. My comprehension remains good and I can still shadow most lessons pretty well when I'm using the book. I started a 2nd wave and I did lesson 4 today. Using French is staying clear this second time through. I'm doing one lesson per day, and read and listen to the previous lesson. I continue to review the previous 7 lessons about twice a week. Usually do that on Wednesday and Sunday. I think that is helping a lot here. Today I'm on lesson 45 of 70. I still think looping back for another wave or two primarily listening and reading will flesh things out a bit more, which will be valuable in the long run. Business French is still waiting in the wings. It fell off the radar three weeks ago after lesson 12. Other Stuff Over the last 2 days I spent about 30 minutes each day listen/reading two books that I am familiar with in English. I had listen/read one of them a few months ago. This week, it was very clear how much my comprehension has improved since that pass. The second book I hadn't read in French before, but I have read it several times in English and Spanish. There too, I felt good about my comprehension. This experience, plus listen/reading to the first chapter of L'Utilarisme by John Stuart Mill with the help of http://translate.google.com got me hot for shifting gears from Assimil to something more interesting. I'm trying to hold myself on the Assimil course track for a while longer. Over the long term, I think it will prove efficacious. Really, it's the next phase of learning where I want my French to be. I'm happy that starting that track appears to be within reach now. Edited by luke on 20 February 2013 at 3:03pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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