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Gary’s 2015 TACtivation: FR, IT | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5200 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes  Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 145 of 187 02 June 2015 at 11:29am | IP Logged | ||
I almost missed your reply, looks like you posted just before I did! Yeah, finding a balance is always tricky. As much as I enjoy learning, it's a lot of work whatever way you slice it. For me, stress seems to arise much more when my motivation is coming from the "wrong" places, like I hinted at before. For example perfectionism (wanting to be able to speak well in every situation) or approval seeking (feeling that I need to speak well for French/Italian people to take me seriously). If I remember my real motivations, love for the languages and cultures, my learning is more relaxed. I suppose I'm hesitant about the exchange because it would create an "artificial" need for French, and I'd study that more at the expense of my other projects. Kinda like when you learn things just to pass an exam. But as you say, if I actually enjoy speaking with her and we get on well then it's as worthwhile as any socialising, it's basically just going for a drink with a friend and the language practice is a bonus. The successful exchanges I've had in the past worked because we were actually keen to see each other and it didn't just feel like an obligation. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Elenia Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom lilyonlife.blog Joined 3849 days ago 239 posts - 327 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: German, Swedish, Esperanto | Message 146 of 187 02 June 2015 at 4:14pm | IP Logged | ||
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Jut watched your video. 'Freeing the natural voice' looks particularly interesting, I look forward to seeing your progress through it, and seeing how it will impact your study (if in anyway, but I am sure that it will!)
Maybe try making it an explicitly social thing and seeing if it works? I guess whatever your decision, there will always be new opportunities to progress as and when you are ready to take them :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5200 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 147 of 187 04 June 2015 at 12:54pm | IP Logged | ||
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Cool, was wondering whether anybody would watch it ;) Another good reason to keep making audio/video recordings every so often is that I'll be able to check my progress and see if my voice and accent are improving.
Time to exercise my rusty French a bit today... Les discussions ici et dans le journal d'emk m'ont fait réfléchir un peu plus sur le dilemme dont j'ai déjà parlé, si ça vaut la peine de continuer de chercher à "activer" mon français alors que pour l'instant je n'en ai pas vraiment besoin. Bref, je reste assez sûr que je fais bien de me concentrer sur l'italien et de mettre le français au second plan. Je crois avoir une bonne connaissance de la langue que, si la situation l’exigeait, je pourrais activer. Si je commençais à travailler en français ou à fréquenter des français, ce serait difficile au début mais je m'y ferais, je m'y adapterais. C'est mieux que de perdre du temps à me préparer maintenant à des situations que ne sont qu'éventuelles, une idée plutôt perfectionniste. Je suis plutôt d'accord avec son idée de continuer d'utiliser la langue mais sans l'étudier. The discussions here and in emk's log made me think a bit more about the dilemma that I already talked about, whether it's worth the effort to keep trying to "activate" my French while right now I don't really need it. Overall I'm quite sure that I'm doing the right thing by concentrating on Italian and putting French in the background. I believe I have a good knowledge of the language that, if the situation required, I could activate. If I started working in French or socialising with French people, it would be difficult at first but I'd get used to it, I'd adapt. It's better than wasting time preparing myself now for situations that are only possibilities, a rather perfectionistic idea. I rather agree with his idea to continue to "use" the language but not to "study" it. J'ai contacté la Belge mais elle n'a pas encore répondu... quelle surprise ! Peut-être qu'elle est occupée ou en vacances, peut-être qu'elle ne s'intéresse plus, et à vrai dire ça m'est égal. Ce serait bien de pouvoir pratiquer ( pour moi ça rentrerait dans la catégorie utiliser plutôt que celle d'étudier ) mais comme je le dis ce n'est pas une priorité. I contacted the Belgian but she's not yet replied... what a surprise! Maybe she's busy or on holiday, maybe she's no longer interested, and to tell the truth I don't mind either way. It would be good to be able to practice (for me that would come into the category of using rather than studying) but as I say it's not a priority. L'espagnol: Hier soir je suis allé à la rencontre Couchsurfing, où je me suis retrouvé dans des conversations italiennes et espagnoles et j'ai pu parler espagnol pour la première fois depuis quelque temps. Mon niveau actuel d'espagnol est à peu près le même qu'il y a un an, quand je l'étudiais. C'est plutôt rassurant, ça ! Depuis que j'ai arrêté de l'étudier, j'ai fait le strict minimum pour le conserver : quelques cartes Anki par jour et des conversations peu fréquentes avec des amis espagnols dans lesquelles j'écoute beaucoup plus que je parle. Hier aussi j'ai écouté plus que j'ai parlé mais j'ai quand même fait un effort et je n'avais pas trop de mal à parler des choses simples. Je n'ai toujours pas de projet définitif pour reprendre l'espagnol, mais si tous mes projets de cette année se passent bien, surtout celui d'améliorer mon italien parlé, peut-être l'année prochaine ? On verra. Spanish: Last night I went to the Couchsurfing meeting, where I found myself in some Italian and Spanish conversations and I was able to speak Spanish for the first time in a while. My current Spanish level is pretty much the same as a year ago, when I was studying it. That's rather reassuring! Since I stopped studying it, I've done the bare minimum to maintain it: a few Anki cards per day and some infrequent conversations with Spanish friends in which I listen much more than I speak. Yesterday too I listened more than I spoke but I still made an effort and I didn't have too much trouble talking about simple things. I still don't have a definite plan for starting Spansh again, but if all my projects for this year go well, especially the one to improve my spoken Italian, maybe next year? We'll see. EDIT: - I accidentally wrote "je me suis retrouver"... I must still be improving, I'm even starting to write like a real French person ;) - Back to the accent subject, an Italian guy last night said that if I wanted to keep improving my accent I'd need to pick a particular regional one to aim for. Of course that's just an idea from someone at the pub rather than expert advice, but it does reflect ideas I've already mentioned here. Edited by garyb on 04 June 2015 at 12:58pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Sarnek Diglot Senior Member Italy Joined 4208 days ago 308 posts - 414 votes Speaks: Italian*, English Studies: German, Swedish | Message 148 of 187 05 June 2015 at 9:42am | IP Logged | ||
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I watched your video and you sound much better than in the recording. You're not as bad as you think you are.
A few tips: - Your vowels are perfect, except "u". You either pronounce it as a [y] (like in french) or as a very rounded [ʊ]. When you do pronounce it as a [ u ] it's way too rounded. Sometimes you pronounce the i as [ɪ] (like the i in the English word "bit"). I'm surprised by how well you pronounce the a's though, I assume it's not that easy to give it that perfect centrality for an English speaker. - Some problems with the consonants I could recognise. You know this already, but your d's and t's are too alveoral. This affects the affricatives as well (soft c and g). Your "l" is dark ([ɫ]). Sometimes your plosives are aspirated. - About your prosody. I notice that sometimes you pause for too long between each syllable. The intonation is right in word-initial and -final position, but you drop it down too much in the centre. Remember that (roughly explained) the intonation of a sentence in Italian has always the same high tone in every syllable except the last word/phrase when it drops down (in affirmative sentences). - Relax! You sound a lot better by the end of the video when you are obviously less tense ;) Great job! Keep up the good work. Edited by Sarnek on 05 June 2015 at 9:44am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5200 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 149 of 187 05 June 2015 at 10:58am | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks once again Sarnek, that's incredibly useful, I wasn't expecting such detailed feedback. I also thought I sounded a lot better on the video than the audio. For the video I was less tired and more warmed up, and I find it a bit easier to speak to a camera than a microphone.
I knew my Us were a bit off but I couldn't put my finger on why. Sounds like my tongue isn't far back enough. I've said before that I didn't round them enough, so I must be over-correcting now. The As are something I've been working on. I'll work on the consonants too. I've never fully understood the difference between light and dark L, time to revise that, but I've read that Scots usually use the dark one. The d, t, plosives etc. are bad habits that keep coming back. Your description of intonation matches what Luca describes, and it seems like a good and simple model to follow. I know people especially from the North whose intonation seems go up and down a lot more, which throws me off a bit. It's a matter of perception to an extent - English-speaking ears can fool us into hearing changes in pitch and stress that aren't there because we expect them. Relaxing is easier said than done when you're paying so much mental attention to what you're saying and how you're saying it, but I suppose it comes with practice! It's the same for music and most physical activities really. In fact I looked at the first chapter of that voice book yesterday and it's all about relaxation and its importance. Thanks once again, that's given me some specific points to work on. I'll make another recording sooner or later. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5200 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 150 of 187 08 June 2015 at 11:53am | IP Logged | ||
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Film e libri:
Ho finito di leggere Non ti muovere. Sono indeciso: da un lato la scrittura era veramente bella, mi sono piaciuti molto le descrizioni, gli dettagli e le immagini, però dall'altro la storia stessa sembrava a volte da telenovela infima. Per il momento faccio una piccola pausa dalla lettura Italiana perché ci sono alcuni libri inglesi che vorrei terminare e adesso preferisco concentrarmi sulla lingua parlata. Cerco di mettere in pratica tutti i consigli sulla pronuncia, ma sono tante cose da ricordare e cambiare abitudini non è facile. I finished reading Don't Move. I'm undecided: on one hand it was really beautifully written, I liked the descriptions, details and imagery a lot, however on the other hand the story itself felt like a bad soap opera at times. For the moment I'm having a little break from Italian reading because there are a few English books that I'd like to finish and I'd rather focus on the spoken language for now. I'm trying to put all the pronunciation advice into practice, but it's so many things to remember and changing habits isn't easy. Ho guardato un film, Milano Calibro 9, un noir degli anni settanta. Mentre la storia non era molto originale, mi è piaciuto lo stile e ho amato la colonna sonora. A essere sinceri l'ho guardato principalmente perché il titolo mi ha fatto sorridere, e poi volevo variare un po', di recente ho guardato troppi commedie e film drammatici. Insomma, un po' come il libro di cui ho appena parlato: più stile che sostanza. I watched a film, Milan Caliber 9, a film noir from the seventies. While the story wasn't very original, I liked the style and loved the soundtrack. To be honest I mainly watched it because the title made me smile, and also I fancied a bit of a change, lately I've watched too many comedies and dramas. Overall, a bit like the book I just talked about: more style than substance. EDIT: I've been learning Italian for how long and I still confuse "sessanta" and "settanta"? Edited by garyb on 08 June 2015 at 11:58am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6590 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 151 of 187 08 June 2015 at 9:06pm | IP Logged | ||
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I haven't watched the video but I've used what was called natural voice techniques before, based on a book about managing/controlling your voice. (I generally speak extremely quietly) It also referred to belcanto but I'm not sure how accurate that is.
Anyway, I've found it really helpful but I keep forgetting to actually use it! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5200 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 152 of 187 09 June 2015 at 10:24am | IP Logged | ||
Interesting, do you remember the name of the book? Just out of curiosity really; it looks like my current one is going to keep me busy for a long time. I'm also a quiet speaker, I don't project enough, and I've been told I speak too much "from the throat", especially in French. I've only done the first couple of exercises from the book but it's interesting so far, it talks about how many of the muscles that control breathing work involuntarily so you can't control them directly as such, but you can influence them with emotion and imagery. So instead of just giving the usual advice to breathe deeply and use your diaphragm more, it teaches you to be more aware of the breath and diaphragm and the ways in which you can mentally influence them. Like I say this is just the start of the book so my understanding is quite vague for the moment. Since you mention bel canto... One of my Italian contacts on Skype is actually an opera singer. I'm sure she'd have some interesting things to say on voice. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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