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 Language Learning Forum : Lessons in Polyglottery |  | |
| Kugel Senior Member United States Joined 6530 days ago 497 posts - 555 votes  Speaks: English* | Message 49 of 64 09 December 2008 at 2:18pm | IP Logged | ||
I mentioned unfounded theory because programs claiming scientific proof turn out to be in most cases junk science. A common pitch would be, "using the latest scientific research...." By mathematical rigor I mean also Logic, which is itself becoming a major separate from Mathematics. I wouldn't know where to begin, but why couldn't you successfully incorporate grammar concepts into logical systems with the goal of better language learning methods? I don't think anything that is already known would be found from such a research project, but it would be interesting nevertheless. J. Barts Edited by Kugel on 09 December 2008 at 2:35pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6695 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 50 of 64 09 December 2008 at 6:27pm | IP Logged | ||
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ProfArguelles, thank you for your long and very interesting answer. Let me add that I sometimes also fear getting identified only with the wordlist method proposed by me, even though I always try to emphasize that learning a lot of words by whatever method you happen to prefer isn't enough to learn a language - you have to work your way through as much and as varied genuine material as possible, and my point is just that I can do that more easily if I'm not constantly distracted by things that I don't know. Therefore I prefer to learn some words and some grammar before jumping into the ocean.
Best wishes, Niels Johs. Legarth Iversen Edited by Iversen on 09 December 2008 at 6:36pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| DaraghM Diglot Senior Member Ireland Joined 6143 days ago 1947 posts - 2923 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French, Russian, Hungarian | Message 51 of 64 10 December 2008 at 9:27am | IP Logged | ||
Prof Arguelles, Could you clarify what is meant by "active correction or guidance at some point" ? Does this imply one must use a tutor, or is focused interaction with native speakers sufficient ? As an autodidactic learner, I haven't undergone any formal instruction, but I have immersed myself in the various regions where my target languages are spoken. Do I need to consider tuition in order to achieve proficiency ? D.Malone Edited by DaraghM on 10 December 2008 at 9:37am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| ProfArguelles Moderator United States foreignlanguageexper Joined 7248 days ago 609 posts - 2102 votes | Message 52 of 64 10 December 2008 at 2:21pm | IP Logged | ||
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Mr. Malone,
Yes, I do think that, while focused interaction with native speakers while immersed in the living environments of your target languages is the essence of what it takes to achieve high standards of refined proficiency, you can achieve this better and faster if an integral part of that immersion consists, at least for a time, of pointed correction from, if not a formal paid tutor, then at least from a linguistically savvy acquaintance. I think it is inevitably true that you will have some deaf and blind spots as well as some fossilized quirks in your speech – aspects of pronunciation that you cannot hear and so cannot correct on your own, constructions that are odd but to which you have become habituated – and you cannot know what you do not know. Without pointed correction, precisely when your level of attainment is already quite high, your average listener will react to the content of your speech rather than pointing out your imperfections. So, what you need is to work with someone who understands her task to be just this, someone who really knows phonetics and grammar and language learning in general. Meeting with such a person for even an overall short period, say an hour a day for several weeks, will almost certainly make the overall experience of immersing yourself in country for a period of time much more profitable. Self-correction is the most important thing you can do, and there is a great deal that you can “just pick up over there,” but there is still a lot more you can accomplish if you have a knowledgeable guide at this stage. Alexander Arguelles 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| GoldFibre Diglot Senior Member Kuwait koreaninkuwait.com Joined 5971 days ago 467 posts - 472 votes Speaks: English*, Korean | Message 53 of 64 11 December 2008 at 5:00am | IP Logged | ||
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. Edited by GoldFibre on 12 January 2009 at 10:53pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6695 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 54 of 64 11 December 2008 at 4:45pm | IP Logged | ||
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Professor Arguelles gives a hint that you might follow: use the wordlist method to prepare for the texts that you want to work with. My interpretation of this suggestion would be the following series of steps: 1) look through the test rather cursorily to collect unknown words and expressions. 2) Write those words down and look them up, one by one, having the original text within sight (to check the context, but don't panic if you don't understand everything yet). 3) organize the unorderly outcome of this activity into a formal 3-column wordlist and learn those words. 4) Put the text aside for at least a day or so - the rumination period is essential. 5) Read or shadow the text as described by the professor. In all likelihood this second pass through the text should go rather smoothly because you don't stumble over unknown words and expression all the time. And you will be in a better position to absorb the larger sentence patterns and 'melody' of the language if you have solved the lexical (and maybe also morphological) problems beforehand. Good luck - and remember the rumination period!
Niels J.L. Iversen Edited by Iversen on 11 December 2008 at 4:49pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| ProfArguelles Moderator United States foreignlanguageexper Joined 7248 days ago 609 posts - 2102 votes | Message 55 of 64 13 December 2008 at 8:20pm | IP Logged | ||
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I have made and posted the ante-penultimate lecture video in this series:
Typologies of foreign language manuals and student learning styles 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| ProfArguelles Moderator United States foreignlanguageexper Joined 7248 days ago 609 posts - 2102 votes | Message 56 of 64 12 January 2009 at 5:59pm | IP Logged | ||
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A few days ago I made and posted the penultimate summary and concluding video that I have planned:
Selecting Self-Study Foreign Language Materials I have long since noticed that some other people who post videos either conclude by asking people to subscribe to and rate them, and/or that they have notes to this effect posted on their channel. I had assumed that this was done merely for vanity's sake, but I have now come to understand that it is actually rather important, for YouTube keeps lists of such things, lists which are watched and studied and produce a snowballing effect. Thus, if you have a message to get across - as I do - these things are to your benefit. For instance, it is apparently because I have already attracted a fair number of subscribers that I was invited to become a "partner," which means that I can now post videos of any length I desire rather than being limited to 10 minutes. I truly hope that my series will indeed come to the attention of some educational organization that will assist me to make them in a more professional fashion rather than just as a guy with a camera in front of his desk. So, if you have not yet signed up for a YouTube account of your own so that you can subscribe to and rate my vidoes, please consider doing so now... Thank you! Alexander Arguelles 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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