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Iversen’s Multiconfused Log (see p.1!) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6695 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes  Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 1793 of 3959 23 April 2010 at 7:28pm | IP Logged | ||
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Como sugeres se vê o mesmo desenvolvimento tambem com outros compositores. Se pôde mencionar Schönberg, e Beethoven é um outro exemplo exemplar. Atualmente todo o desenvolvimento da música clássica da escola Mannheimer e Gluck às postromanticos (incluindo o jovem Schönberg e Scriabin) costitui um movimento geralmente crescente da simplicidade à complexidade. Pessoalmente eu vejo a técnica 12-tonos de Schönberg (o o dodecafonismo) como uma piada de mau gosto que encontrou a sua expressão supremamente absurda nos produtos de Webern, mas também é difícil ver como a linha de Scriabin poderia continuar. As alternativas reais na minha opinião são a simplicidade, juntamente com influências exóticas, do grupo de compositores francêsos conhecido como "Les Six" ... e também o jazz, o Rock e os estilos que os seguiam. Mas eu me ater à música clássica, e dado que este efetivamente morreu no meio do 20. século a minha coleção de casetas de música tem muito pouca música escrita mais tarde.
As you suggest other composers have developed in the same way. You mention Schönberg, and Beethoven is another prime example, but the general development of classical music from simplistic formulas of the Mannheimer composers and Gluck to the late- and postromantics (including the young Schönberg and Scriabin) is in fact a one-way movement from simplicity to ever increasing complexity. Personally I see Schönberg's 12-tone technique as a seriously bad joke that found its supremely absurd expression in Webern, but it is also difficult to see how Scriabin's line could have continued. The real alternatives in my opinion are the simplicity coupled with exotic influence of 'Les Six', and not least jazz, rock and the styles that followed in their steps. So my view is that the musical creativity (and every shred of relevance) has left the classical 'score music' (as some call it) and now reside in the socalled 'rythmical' music. Accordingly my music collection contains very little music written after the middle of the 20. century where my preferred kind of music basically died. But that's also quite a lot to keep track of. -- Akkurat nå ser jeg et program om vulkanisme på NRK1 (Norge). De begynte med den etiopiske vulkanen Erta Alle ("det rykende fjellet"), som har en permanent flytende lavasø. Så dro de (naturlikvis) til Island, hvor de viste gapet mellom den amerikanske og den europeiske kontinentalplate, og så var det noe om stromatolitter og andre primitive livsformer som levet i milliarder av år uten å gjøre fremsteg. Men efter dette kom de til den totale frysepunktet for 700 millioner år siden ("snøball-jord"*), hvor hele jorden var nedfrosset. Den bare endte på grunn av vulkansk aktivitet som fylte atmosfæren med klimagasser - hurra for drivhusgasserne! Da isen forsvant, eksploderte den biologisk utvikling. Men jeg har jo allerede skrevet om tidligere i denne loggen .. EDIACARIA !!!!!! Det viktigste steg i livets historie i den siste millard år !! (* : "snowball Earth", where the whole planet was covered by an immense icecap) Edited by Iversen on 24 April 2010 at 12:31pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Hobbema Senior Member United States Joined 5733 days ago 541 posts - 575 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Portuguese, French, Dutch | Message 1794 of 3959 24 April 2010 at 12:08am | IP Logged | ||
POR: Quando eu estava no colégio eu jogava em uma comunidade de banda que foi dedicado ao novo, experimental e música "avant-garde". O mais experimental e bizarro, o melhor. Era conduzido por um cabelo selvagem, muito barbudo, excêntrico professor universitário, que eu suspeito que foi provavelmente um gênio e também tinha um senso de humor muito divertido. Eu acho que a música novo você tem que ter um bom senso de humor. "4:33" de John Cage (onde um pianista sobe ao palco, senta no banco do piano, começa um relógio, e então fica ali sem fazer nada durante 4 minutos e 33 segundos) pode ser uma declaração sobre a participação do público e que tipos de sons de parece fazer música, mas eu não posso pensar qualquer um diria que era boa música. Schönberg - linha 12 impõe regras e estrutura em uma escala, fazendo música que eu pessoalmente não cuidar, e me pergunto se Schönberg se tornou como uma experiência, ou se ele esperava que ficar em seus próprios méritos, como a música. É bem como um exercício acadêmico, para o gozo eu prefiro ouvir outras coisas. ENG: When I was in high school I played in a community wind arts band that was dedicated to new, experimental, and avant-garde music. The more experimental and bizarre, the better. It was led by a wild haired, heavily bearded, eccentric college professor who I suspect was probably a genius and also had a wildly funny sense of humor. I think with really new music you have to have a sense of humor. John Cage's "4:33" (where a pianist goes up on stage, sits at the piano bench, starts a clock, and then sits there doing nothing for 4 minutes and 33 seconds) may be a statement about audience participation and what types of sounds make music, but I can't think anyone would say that it was great music. Schönberg's 12 tone row imposes rules and structure on a scale, making music I don't personally care for, and I wonder if Schönberg himself made it as an experiment, or if he expected it to stand on its own merits as music. It's okay as an academic exercise, for enjoyment I would rather listen to other things. And as you said, that also is a lot to keep track of. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6695 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 1795 of 3959 24 April 2010 at 12:43am | IP Logged | ||
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A unica coisa de Cage que eu quer ouvir tem que ser "4:33", - mas eu não quería ver ninguem joga-la.
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| Hobbema Senior Member United States Joined 5733 days ago 541 posts - 575 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Portuguese, French, Dutch | Message 1796 of 3959 24 April 2010 at 4:58am | IP Logged | ||
Well, I couldn't resist. Not a bad Youtube video and explanation. I thought I would throw it in here because this here in America has always been one of the most controversial pieces of avant-garde contemporary music. At least for traditionalists. So I attach this link, sincerely hoping that the inclusion of this controversial material doessn't put Iversen't Multi-confused log on the list of banned books at so many of our public libraries...:) John Cage - 4'33" 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6695 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 1797 of 3959 24 April 2010 at 12:53pm | IP Logged | ||
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I take Cage's opus as a statement about the ideology of the public that attends avantgarde concerts - they are proud of being fooled. And they don't even get it when a 'composer' of their kin show them how utterly foolish they are. It reminds me of a restaurant that once was shown in a TV program: you get in, sit down, order your menu and wait. After that you pay your bill, smile and leave. No food.
I have been working on the homepage of my travel club today (and part of yesterday evening), and on TV I have mostly watched programs in English - so no language learning so far. But I did notice something: we got a glowing recommendation for new types of solar panels that can absorb much more light than the old type could. They also told about all the benefits to the climate etc. The only problem they forgot to mention is that this technology is based on rare Earth elements (like indium) which mainly are found in China in severely limited quantities. So these technologies may be smart, but they are not in the least future oriented. There is more punch in another idea, namely building houses on a foundation of old car tyres filled with sand. It has always been a pain i.t.a. to get rid of those things. If this can solve the problem then it is a win-win situation. EDIT: en este momento estoy escuchando un programa "Desde Galicia" en TVE Internacional. Hemos visitado la ciudad Lugo, que yo no he visitado pero que aprentemente es un lugor interesante. Hay musica de 'gaita gallega', que es un instrumento musical aparecido a la cornamusa escocés. Peró aún no he entendido nada en gallego. La cosa mas próxima fue un hombre que hablaba de los perspectivos turisticos de su región en Español distintamente colorado por el Gallego. Right now I'm listening to a TV program from Galicia in TVE (in Spanish). They have for for instance shown a clip from the venerable old town Lugo, which I haven't visited yet. I have also heard some music with the Galician version of the bagpipe (with one drone instead of three) - I almost feel like I'm back in Scotland when I hear it. But so far I haven't heard any Gallego (or Galician), the local language (or dialect of Portuguese), which is a glaring omission. The nearest thing was a man who spoke about the touristical potential of his region in Spanish with a pronunciation that clearly was coloured by Gallego. Edited by Iversen on 24 April 2010 at 2:05pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6695 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 1798 of 3959 26 April 2010 at 11:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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FR: En ce moment j'écoute l'émission Géo de TV5 (une des rares qui durent plus que trois minutes). D'abord on a visité le Nord de la Floride, où nous avons vu des alligators et des crocodiles et les personnes qui vivent avec ces bêtes. Malhéureusement c'était un mélange de français et anglais, mais j'aime bien les programmes de nature. Maintenant nous visitons la ville chilienne Valaparaiso, que j'ai visité (quoique j'ai eu ma chambre dans Viña del Mar un peu plus au nord). Valparaiso est en principe un port - avec le milieu un peu rude qui est charactéristique pour ce type de villes. Mais je me suis senti bien là - la ville a beaucop de charme, surtout en fonction de sa disposition avec une ville basse et une ville haute liées par des funiculaires. D'ailleurs je senti un petit tremblement de terre pendant mon séjour à Viña del Mar, mais les personnes de ma maison d'hébergement n'ont pas été impressionnés, - pour eux c'était seulement un petit "temblor".
FR: Hoy tuvo por la primera vez en 24 años una oportunidad de hablar español en mi lugar de trabajo. Tuvimos una recepción de despedida a un empleado, y su novia resultó ser un dama español que hablaba inglés a la gente. Al mismo tiempo, habia otro empleado presente que era un imigrante de Nicaragua. Tal oportunidad debe aprovecharse, por supuesto, pero he observado que algunos de mis colegas parecian realmente sorprendidos quando hemos discutido en español. Quizá ellos no me han tomado en serio las veces que he mencionado que me interesan los idiomas. . ---------- When I wrote the French passage above I was listening to a programme at TV5, first with a section about the Northern parts of Florida, where people live with alligators and crocodiles around their houses. After that we visited the Chilean harbour town Valparaiso ('Paradise Valley') which I actually have visited, - even though I stayed in its neighbour town Viña del Mar (which can be reached by train from Santiago). Valparaiso is known as a somewhat rough harbour town, but it actually has a lot of charm, not least because of its astructure with a low and a high town connected by funicular elevators. Actually the Chilean Congress is located in Valparaiso, but I didn't know that while I was there (not that it would have made much of a difference). I did however experience a minor earth quake, but not enough to impress the people at my guesthouse. Apart from that I had for the first time in 24 years the chance to speak Spanish at my job. We had a reception for a collegue who has quit his job, and it turned out that his fiancé was a Spanish lady from Madrid, who however only spoke English to people. One of the other guests was an immigrant from Nicaragua who has been here for a long time, and of course I couldn't let that chance pass by. But I noticed that some of my other collegues looked genuinely surprised when they heard us discuss in Spanish. They may not have taken it quite seriously when I once in a while have mentioned my interest in languages. Edited by Iversen on 28 April 2010 at 2:18am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5839 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes 1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 1799 of 3959 27 April 2010 at 8:50pm | IP Logged | ||
!Felicitaciones que por primera vez tuviste la occasión de hablar otro idoma que el danés y el inglés en tu lugar de trabajo - solamente por casualidad! Certamente tus colegas de trabajo no saben, que cosa es un poligloto ?verdad? Fasulye Edited by Fasulye on 27 April 2010 at 8:51pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6695 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 1800 of 3959 28 April 2010 at 2:10am | IP Logged | ||
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(summary moved) Edited by Iversen on 07 June 2010 at 3:00pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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