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Warp3: Korean/Japanese (TAC 2015 東亞) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5528 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 89 of 479 11 March 2012 at 9:49pm | IP Logged | ||
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2012년 3월 4일 - 2012년 3월 10일:
Hanja: 9 I'm starting to get a bit burnt out on these as I don't really *use* them often so they don't stick nearly as well as Korean vocab. I'm not going to stop completely, but I may back down the rate a bit or even drop having a target goal and just add whenever I feel like it. Adding them has become a cinch now, but they are still very tricky to recall. If I don't back way down on them, then I have to figure out a better way to get them more firmly planted in my head so I don't miss each card for a several days after adding it. Using some sort of visual mnemonic usually helps but even that doesn't always ensure that it will stick in my mind quickly. Korean cards: 44 I was on a fairly normal pace overall, but ended up adding 17 cards yesterday despite only needing 12 to reach my goal for the week, so I overshot a bit (not that that's a bad thing). Completed SKV sections: None Virtually all my vocab was from TV this week. Completed song lyrics: None See comment above. Memorized song lyrics: A-pink - 몰라요 I'm getting really close on "Kara - Lupin" and "T-ara - 왜 이러니?" now as well. I only need to memorize the first line of each verse in the former and the first half of the rap section in the latter. I'm not adding any more songs to the queue until I eliminate several first. Listening: I'm still working through the audio of 내 여자친구는 구미호 (finished episode 14 on Friday, so 2 episodes left). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| druckfehler Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4861 days ago 1181 posts - 1912 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Korean Studies: Persian | Message 90 of 479 12 March 2012 at 3:12am | IP Logged | ||
How do you study Hanja? Do you learn form and meaning, or form/meaning/pronunciation, or that plus example words? I've just started out this week, but I think I'm going to take it easy with those and just mine a Hanja dictionary for words to study. It seems very helpful for vocabulary study, but I guess it'll take ages until I'm up to a decent number... Are you using Hanja outside the SRS? Maybe you can get a text/reader with Hanja? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5528 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 91 of 479 12 March 2012 at 5:48am | IP Logged | ||
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My Hanja cards have 4 fields (formerly 5). I have fields for the character (the only part that appears on the question side), the reading, the meaning (both the Korean word that is given and the English definition), and example words that use this character. Previously, I had a stroke order field containing a picture (from either Wiktionary or Naver's Hanja dictionary), but I recently dropped that part. (NOTE: I do recommend learning stroke order when you start, but after a while the stroke order of new characters becomes rather obvious. However keep in mind that Korean/Chinese stroke order is *not* always the same as Japanese stroke order, so choose your source reference appropriately.)
Originally, I required myself to answer with the reading, meaning (Korean and English) and stroke order to get the card correct. (The example words are only there for reference.) Later, I made the stroke order optional (I still answered it, but wouldn't count the card wrong for it). Later yet, I became more lax with requiring the Korean word in the meaning field (especially since this can vary by source, unlike the reading). Even later yet, I dropped the stroke order field since it made the cards more difficult to create and had become less relevant at that point anyway. Now, the only thing I *require* of myself to pass the card is the reading and the general meaning. That said, I will usually rate the card as "Hard" if I can't recall the Korean version of the meaning entry (or for a few rare cards, I sometimes recall the word from the Korean meaning section, but can't remember what the character actually means) and only rate "Good" or higher for cards where I can get the reading and both versions of the meaning. As for usage: I've found myself using 한자 as markers in personal lists I make (flagging an entry as "in progress", "complete", etc. since you can convey a lot with one character) but that is the only real *active* use they usually get. Passively, I see them occasionally on TV and sometimes I'll try to extract what I can from something written in Chinese or Japanese, but otherwise I don't really use them much since Korean doesn't make heavy use of Hanja nowadays. Here is an example of one of my Hanja cards (the one I added today, in fact): 한자: 鳥 Reading: 조 Meaning: 새 (bird) Examples: 조총(鳥銃; fowling piece, bird gun); 조류(鳥類; birds, fowl); 백조(白鳥; swan); 불사조(不死鳥; phoenix) Except for the last one (phoenix), all those examples were the ones listed for that character in the book "A Guide To Korean Characters" which I use as my official source for Hanja info. I've also recently started using this site http://hanjadic.bravender.us/ as a great reference for example words. Edited by Warp3 on 13 March 2012 at 3:16am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| vermillon Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4671 days ago 602 posts - 1042 votes Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, German | Message 92 of 479 12 March 2012 at 11:02am | IP Logged | ||
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Ah, Hanja, my favourite topic! ;-)
I proceed a bit the same as Warp3 in that I have several fields (but no word example and no stroke order): the character, the reading in Korean, the reading in Mandarin and in Cantonese (usually it helps me understand better why the character is that different from Mandarin, particularly the p/t/k tones), its meaning in Korean and in English. I add about a hundred a week (20 a day but I usually miss some days as it's not my main concern). Usually I can't remember easily their pronunciation unless it's very systematic: all "guang" in Mandarin lead to a 광 in Korean, but for pronunciation that are a bit different ("dan" turns to 단 or 담), usually I keep failing them until I learn some word containing it. However, I never go looking for those words, it's only incidentally in the course of learning my regular vocabulary that I find them (because my Korean deck has a field for Hanja). I've found a very nice book called "A Korean Reader for Chinese Characters" (from the KLEAR series, published by the University of Hawaii, as usual) and it's very good to learn hanja (500 of them) and see them in texts (not in parentheses, but in lieu of the hangul). I'm thinking of buying it, just because I love mixed script so much, but I think it's also a good way to learn the hanja: every lesson teaches you 12-13 hanja, then shows you a text in mixed script (only characters you've learned already), a vocbulary list using compounds from the characters you've learnt so far, and a vocabulary list for you to search the meaning (or infer from your logic). And it's not very expensive imho (25$/22£). 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5528 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 93 of 479 12 March 2012 at 2:24pm | IP Logged | ||
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That book sounds quite useful. I've noticed that several of the really good books for learning Korean are from University of Hawaii Press. I know "Sounds of Korean" is and I believe "Using Korean" (by one of the same authors) is as well.
FYI, for those in the US, Amazon has this book for $29 with free super saver shipping: http://www.amazon.com/Klear-Korean-Chinese-Textbooks-Languag e/dp/0824824997/ 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| vermillon Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4671 days ago 602 posts - 1042 votes Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, German | Message 94 of 479 12 March 2012 at 3:34pm | IP Logged | ||
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I live in London, and they're slightly more expensive (if I'm correct about the exchange rate) but still with free delivery.
And indeed, I believe the Uni of Hawaii press releases the best books related to Korean. The "Handbook of Korean Vocabulary" and the "Modern Korean Intermediate Reader" are excellent, and the KLEAR series look very good as well. They also have some readers for more advanced levels. The only thing they could improve, and a lot, is the quality of their print, because it's really not very good. But all in all, considering the price, it's probably ok. :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| druckfehler Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4861 days ago 1181 posts - 1912 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Korean Studies: Persian | Message 95 of 479 12 March 2012 at 5:53pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks for the explanation! I had no idea about different stroke order, I'll be careful to avoid the Japanese one now. I also found the hanjadict.bravender site and find it extremely useful (it's so much less work than looking up hanja on daum/naver with no English translation).
Hey, I happen to have "A Korean Reader for Chinese Characters" lying around :) It's pretty good as far as I can tell. I went through the introduction that explains the general makeup of Hanja, stroke order and radicals as well as the first lesson, which introduces the numbers and date (next are days of the week and time). The structure seems very logical and the exercises helpful. My only complaint is that it's a bit dry (although I also like that about it; a book that tries to be fun and fails while obfuscating what it's supposed to teach is much worse). It's great that there's a book like this with actual mixed text that starts off fairly easy. At some point I'll definitely work my way through it, but for now I'm more or less just going to use random Hanja as a memory aid for vocabulary study. This may not be the most efficient way to go about things, but as long as something sticks I'm already happy. I have another question for you two... :) When you write a character by hand, how do you know if it looks passable or is a total mess? It's probably a silly question, but despite following stroke order my characters tend to end up looking rather deformed... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| vermillon Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4671 days ago 602 posts - 1042 votes Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, German | Message 96 of 479 12 March 2012 at 6:25pm | IP Logged | ||
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Just remember how you wrote your name when you've learnt how to write it: for me, very uglily.
The general thing is that all your characters should fit into a square of same size (like hangul), but if you're asking about writing a single character, then I'd say you should find a font that looks like "handwriting" and copy it, observe the details, find why it looks ugly or beautiful... pay attention to the length ratios particularly. And of course, practice. It takes time though, and I surely don't write characters prettily when I want to write a long Chinese text. As for stroke order, it's not that important if you learn the Chinese or Japanese way in my opinion. When you learn Chinese, you're taught that 王 is 一一l一 and in Japan it's 一l一一, but in practice anyone who writes a slightly cursive style writes the Japanese way. The difference is surely not that big and is anyway influenced by calligraphy. As long as you get the general order, you'll quickly feel what order is "more convenient" and leads to the most beautiful handwriting. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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