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Spanish "G" /g/ or /x/ | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| LFD1988 Triglot Newbie United States Joined 4084 days ago 18 posts - 21 votes Speaks: English*, German, Japanese Studies: Spanish, Dutch | Message 1 of 7 18 May 2015 at 5:27am | IP Logged | ||
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I have been taught for Spanish that the "G" can have two different sounds; For example:
In "tengo" it sounds like /g/ (I hope I got the IPA correct). In "elegir" is sounds like /x/, right? My question is: How do I know which one it should be? Some words, I have heard before and now know which it should be, but sometimes when reading I come across new vocabulary and I am not entirely sure how it should be pronounced? Are there particular types of syllables that would determine the pronunciation based on vowel or consonant combinations that precede the "g?" Please let me know if anyone has some insight on this. Any help is much appreciated! :D 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| AlexTG Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 4583 days ago 178 posts - 354 votes  Speaks: English*, French Studies: Latin, German, Spanish, Japanese | Message 2 of 7 18 May 2015 at 6:05am | IP Logged | ||
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There's actually three types of 'g'. The distinction I think you're asking about here can be answered by: if the 'g' is followed by an 'e', or 'i'
pronounce as /x/ otherwise pronounce as /g/. But there are two types of /g/: /g/, follows the same pattern as /d/ and /b/. They each have an occlusive pronunciation and a fricative pronunciation. Occlusive means that the sound is let out at once, like the English /g/, /b/ and /d/. Fricative means it can be let out gradually, like the /g/ in "lago", the /d/ in "todo" (English /th/), and the /b/ in "ave". The choice between the two is quite fluid and native Spanish speakers actually use a variety of sounds between two extremes depending on how they feel at the time. The most common pronunciation in most positions is the fricative. The most common pronunciation at the beginning of a speech unit is occlusive. You have to just get used to what counts as a speech unit, and it is very fluid for natives. In many cases after a short pause a native will sometimes use fricative, sometimes occlusive. But certainly it will sound weird if you use the fricative /b/ in the phrase "Vamos muchachos" because it's something you say by itself, without any preceding words. It is also normal to use the occlusive when following from a nasal consonant (/n/ or /m/). Hence "tengo" is pronounced closer to an English /g/ than the usual Spanish /g/ (but this is a case where you will often hear something in between). source: "Fonetica y fonologia española" by Richard Barrutia and Tracy David Terrell. Generally you shouldn't trust natives and language learners about things like this, they have no idea what they're doing with their mouths. Only linguists pay enough attention to know what's actually happening. *btw, since you mention it, as I understand it, // is used for phonological representations, [] for phonetic representations, so IPA symbols should be put in []. Hence I use /g/ to represent the phonological sound in Spanish, which is sometimes pronounced as the IPA [g] (occlusive) and sometimes as the IPA [ɣ] (fricative). Edited by AlexTG on 18 May 2015 at 7:01am 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| smallwhite Pentaglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5253 days ago 537 posts - 1045 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin, French, Spanish | Message 3 of 7 18 May 2015 at 6:30am | IP Logged | ||
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For pronunciation rules you can always try Wikipedia.
German phonology English phonology Spanish phonology etc. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| LFD1988 Triglot Newbie United States Joined 4084 days ago 18 posts - 21 votes Speaks: English*, German, Japanese Studies: Spanish, Dutch | Message 4 of 7 18 May 2015 at 6:54am | IP Logged | ||
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@AlexTG - Thank you so much for the explanation!
@smallwhite - Thank you very much for the resources! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Dragon27 Diglot Groupie Russian Federation Joined 4186 days ago 41 posts - 71 votes Speaks: Russian*, English | Message 5 of 7 18 May 2015 at 7:21am | IP Logged | ||
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This is actually a very common principle in many european languages. Before "i" and "e" sounds like "g" and "c" change into their "soft" counterparts (fricatives, or something else). But if you want to keep the hard "g" sound even before these vowels you should use special spelling. In Spanish (and a few other languages) to indicate /ge/(or /gi/) instead of /xe/(/xi/) one should use the "gue"("gui") spelling (in which "u" is silent). For hard "c" (sound /k/, rather than /θ/ or /s/ in European/Latin American Spanish) before "e/i" one should use "que"/"qui".
Hard and soft G Hard and soft C Edited by Dragon27 on 18 May 2015 at 9:15am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| mrwarper Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member Spain forum_posts.asp?TID=Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5171 days ago 1493 posts - 2500 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2 Studies: German, Russian, Japanese | Message 6 of 7 20 May 2015 at 10:35am | IP Logged | ||
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While all that has been said looks correct, I think a quick, to-the-point summary could be the most useful for beginners, so, for the record, the 1-to-1 correspondence between letter g and sounds in Spanish can be summed up with these four little rules:
* In ga, go, gu → "g" sounds /g/ * In ge, gi → "g" sounds /x/ * If you want to spell /ge/ or /gi/, it's "gue" and "gui" (doesn't contradict rules #1 or #2 if you pay attention). * If you want to write /gue/ or /gui/, use the diaeresis: "güe" and "güi" (cigüeña, stork; pingüino, penguin). Edit/note: intervocalic /x/ becomes /ɣ/, true, but you can ignore that for the most part if it gives you trouble at the beginning. In parallel, the relationship between q and k, c and z, and /θ/ and /k/: * In ca, co, cu → "c" sounds /k/ * In ce, ci → "c" sounds /θ/ * If you want to spell /ke/ or /ki/, it's "que" and "qui", (since another letter is used, no fourth rule is necessary to write /kue/ or /kui/). Or looking at it the other way around (writing down what you hear): To spell /θ/ + vowel: za, ce, ci, zo, zu To spell /k/ + vowel: ca, que, qui, co, cu "K" always sounds like /k/ but is reserved for loanwords -- here, as always, all sorts of crazy shit may happen: "ze" and "zi" for /θe/ and, /θi/, "q" not being followed by "u", etc. Edited by mrwarper on 20 May 2015 at 10:41am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| LFD1988 Triglot Newbie United States Joined 4084 days ago 18 posts - 21 votes Speaks: English*, German, Japanese Studies: Spanish, Dutch | Message 7 of 7 21 May 2015 at 5:18am | IP Logged | ||
Oh, I didn't know that. I am quite the beginner with IPA actually. I just started learning how to read it a week ago. I wish I had known it from the beginning when I started learning languages. It would have helped me so much. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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