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Spanish Log (TAC 2014 Team Lobo) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| dbag Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5015 days ago 605 posts - 1046 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 1 of 271 11 April 2011 at 12:16am | IP Logged | ||
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Where I'm at, and where I'd like to be
The initial desire to learn Spanish came following a visit to Barcelona in early November. While there, I was amazed at how many words I could remember from looking at Spanish books years before, but at the same time frustrated by my inabillity to comunicate. So I resolved that on my return, I would have a serious stab at the language. I had read much about how it was supposed to be possible for a speaker of English to pick up a decent level of Spanish in about 3 months, and while that claim seemed to me to represent an exageration, I did feel that with a little dedication it wouldnt be far off. In the beginning stages, I really had no idea how to procede, although I had read somewhere that the Michel Thomas courses where supposed to be good, and had even listened to start of one of the lessons 2 or 3 years previously. So I decided that I'd get a hold of these I see how I got on. I'd also picked up the idea from somewhere that one could learn a language solely through exposure to the language, so went about obtaining some Spanish music (reggaeton) and audiobooks of "cuentos infantiles". At night, I would listen to the MT tapes until I fancied a change, then listen to the music or fairy tales. I would also regularly flick through a fishing magazine that I had bought back from Spain. So I continued in this fashion for around 8 weeks, and progress was understandably slow. At the time, though, it did feel that I was picking a lot up. I decided to book a few days in Madrid for the latter part of Febuary, thinking that A) it would give me an incentive to keep up my studies, and B) I would probably be even more inspired to continue studying when I got back. So I continued with the method described above, while also flicking through the odd textbook and watching instructional videos on Youtube. It was around this point that I came across a video of a guy from the states talking about how he had reached a good level in the language from combining the MT course with Pimsleur. Having never heard of Pimsleur, I decided to do some research ( which is how I came across this site). In the comments for the video mentioned, the poster mentions that he had come across an even better course that used the same style as pimsleur, bought tought much more, in a much quicker time. The name of this course was "Learning Spanish Like Crazy ", and as it seemed to have a lot of good reviews, I decided to give it a go ( I will say though, the marketing used by this company is terrible). Begining this couse improved my Spanish no end, although I found that I would have to repeat some lessons several times over to be able to produce correct responses. At this time, I also found a cheap copy of " Collins Language Revolution" which helped me undertand the ideas behind conjugation of verbs etc. In all, I completed the first half of "Learning Spanish Like Crazy Level 1" finishing some of the lessons several times. Then came the trip to Madrid... Edited by dbag on 01 January 2014 at 1:16am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| dbag Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5015 days ago 605 posts - 1046 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 2 of 271 12 April 2011 at 12:36am | IP Logged | ||
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Madrid
Well, I must say that I came back from Madrid feeling pretty pleased with myself. I was able to ask for and recieve virtually anything I wanted in shops, bars etc, hardly ever having to resort to using English, and with very few misunderstandings on either side. Some misunderstandings seemed to be due to my present inability to form the "rolled R" sound. One waiter in Toledo misundertood me asking for "Coca-Cola", and (unless its me imagining things) seemed to pronunce both the c's with a "th". Has any one else came across this? I was also able to give and recieve directions etc, which was very satisfying. For me this holiday was all about speaking as much Spanish as possible, more than seeing sites. What I did find extremely frustrating was being unable to hold converstations in Spanish with any depth at all to them. So I think the reality of the situation is that while I have been able to internalise and effectivly use the BARE basics, my knowledge of Spanish is actually extremly limited. Having said that, I think I know much, much more Spanish than I am able to use in thesse kinds of situations. The real trouble was that I could talk to someone for a short length of time in what was possibly reasonable Spanish, giving people the impression that I actually knew more than was really the case. There were several occasions when people would talk to me for quite some time in Spanish, with me being able to only understand a small percentage of what was being said. I have decided to take this as a sign though, that I was at least sending them the right signals to make them think I had a higher ability than was really the case, which is at least a promising start. What do other people think? Have others had similar experiences when trying languages for the first time? I would be interested to hear. I also had several conversations in a mixture of English and Spanish, with native speakers whose ability in English far exceded mine in Spanish. I tried to make it a matter of point to only use English when I really had to. The point of all this for me, was that even this very, very basic ability in the language really opened up doors that wouldnt have been there without it. People in Madrid (except a tiny, tiny minority) really seemed to apreciate the effort I was making. and to actually want to speak with me , which wasnt the case at all for my travel partner who had no knowledge of the language at all. This has made me think that I will learn at least some of the language of any country I should care to visit in the future. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| dbag Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5015 days ago 605 posts - 1046 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 3 of 271 12 April 2011 at 1:08am | IP Logged | ||
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Madrid really hyped me up for learning more Spanish, so I started scanning this site avidly for information on the best way to continue.
I decided that I wasnt really getting much more out of Michel Thomas, and LSLC had begun to move a little too quickly. Its a fantastic course, but it is easy to get left behind, as it introduces so much in so little time that it can be to much to take in. Indeed, I found that the retention rate of this information was actually very low, so I decided to shelve it for a little while and try something else. Pimsleur seemed just the ticket. Well, I really thought that I would be able to wip through this course in no time at all, but that just wasnt the case. Lessons 1- 10 easy. Got to lesson 17 or thereabouts and came to the painful realisation that I had to skip back a few lessons. I seemed to have trouble with basic things like when to use Ser instead of Estar etc. despite knowing the rules behind their use. Knowing the rules. and being able to use them, instantly and on demand, are two seperate things. I am currently on lesson 2 of Pimsleur 3. and its been a real mission to get this far. I think there is a lot of value in completing the Pimsleur levels ( for reasons I think ill go into at a later date) but it has began to rob some of the joy out of learning Spanish. The long term plan has been to finish Pimsleur, then move on to Platiquemos. Again, I think the lure of the Platiquemos course is something I might write a bit about in the future, as it could be interesting to compare how initial expectations compare with reality. Incidentally there is a very interesting language log written by a member who goes by the name of irrationale, who completed both Pimsleur and Platiquemos in a period of about 7 months, and was able to come away with a very high standard of Spanish. Really inspiring reading. Im getting tired at the moment, but tomorrow I intend to write about how my love afair with Assimil began, and detail which courses I have used so far. Not every entry will be as long as the previous two, but what im trying to do is acurately bring this log up to the present day. I wish I had done so from the start, as it would be very interesting to chart the changes that occur in your own mind as you begin to take on another language. Its something I will remember when I eventually take up another. Edited by dbag on 12 April 2011 at 1:09am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| dbag Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5015 days ago 605 posts - 1046 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 4 of 271 16 April 2011 at 11:54am | IP Logged | ||
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Courses I have used so far
Michel Thomas foundation 1 - 8 ( listened to some of these several times) Collins language revolution beginner and beginner + (read through both of the books, done several of the exercises, listened to parts of the CDs) Learning Spanish Like Crazy Level 1 (Finished level 1 part 1 ) BBC Mi Vida Loca watched up to about episode 7 some time ago Destinos up to episode 6 Pimsleur Finished level 1 and 2 Started level 3 Synergy Spanish finished several lessons, not sure how many exactly, but this is a resource I plan to use continually Assimil up to lesson 32 (passive wave) Edited by dbag on 16 April 2011 at 11:54am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Irish_Goon Senior Member United States Joined 6408 days ago 117 posts - 170 votes Speaks: English* | Message 5 of 271 16 April 2011 at 3:10pm | IP Logged | ||
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To comment on one of your earlier posts, I did have a problem understanding one man who was from Spain (as I normally converse with Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, etc.) as the "c" he was pronouncing as "th" such as pronouncing "decir" as "dethir" and for some reason it just took me a while to get into the flow of his speech.
It is weird for me b/c I did Assimil Spanish (that teaches European Spanish) that has that accent so I should have just picked it right up but I guess maybe conversing with others dulled it. Good luck with your studies. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| dbag Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5015 days ago 605 posts - 1046 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 6 of 271 18 April 2011 at 10:49pm | IP Logged | ||
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That "tn" sound is especially prominent in Madrid. But it was strange to hear someone saying "thola thola". I would say though,that everyone else I have spoken to in Spain has prounced it "KOKA - KOLA", which I consider correct. This guy was a waiter in Toledo, so perhaps its just a regional pronounciation?
Just out of interest, how did you get on with Assimil Spanish? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Irish_Goon Senior Member United States Joined 6408 days ago 117 posts - 170 votes Speaks: English* | Message 7 of 271 19 April 2011 at 6:31pm | IP Logged | ||
Reasonably well, within the first dozen or so lessons I was picking up information that I had not learnt from any other sources. In the midst of using Assimil I watched alot of Telemundo (still do) and looked at online Spanish newspapers. I was pleasantly surprised at how much I could understand and it grew steadily while using the program. It gives you useful slices of information in a very reviewable fashion. I have never understood why other programs wait so damn long to give you meaningful structures that are EASY to comprehend and use such as indirect and direct pronouns with verb constructions. Also in this particular case, constructions like "Tener que" and "Acabar de" are taught pretty early on and not stupid vocab like "blackboard" or "chalk" followed by thirty different names of fruit, animals, and vegetables that I don't even use in English. Also with the audio completely being in the target language really really helps. These other programs with a high percentage of English audio are annoying but not as much as the people here who defend it as saying "well this program has 100 hours of audio versus your 3, how can you say that Assimil can take you to basic fluency" while not understanding that only 1 hour of those 100 hours was in the target language. Sorry for the rant but stuff like that is just irritating and in my opinion is why people don't learn languages often. Many thanks to fanatic for convincing me to use Assimil. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| dbag Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5015 days ago 605 posts - 1046 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 8 of 271 20 April 2011 at 1:41am | IP Logged | ||
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I've had a lot to do after work this week so Ive been too tired to write all I have wanted to about Assimil.
But I agree completly with everything youve written here. I'm currently on lesson 35 of the passive wave, and I just cant believe how much ive learnt in just over a month. I wish I'd known about this course right from the start. I have been doing the course pretty much as described, although I regularly read back over old lessons as well as listen to old dialogues repeatedly. Once I have an idea of whats in the dialogues, I very rarely look at the English, which means Im thinking in Spanish for virtually the whole lesson. Whats amazing to me, is that I can look back over old lessons, which not long ago seemed almost incomprehensible, and its almost like reading a page in English. Another thing, I can spend over an hour looking back over old lessons, picking up useful stuff, and yet it doesnt seem like work at all. My main tactic is to leave the book sitting on the bedside table, and to go over the days lesson both first thing in the morning and last thing at night I also skim through the book at various other times in the day if I get the chance. I am reluctant to carry the book around with me in case it gets damaged, but I am considering picking up another cheap copy, which can come with me whether I go, while my present edition can be a neat copy which sits at home. Its pretty sad, but I literally cant wait to get on to the active wave. I have looked at a lot of books available in the UK for learning Spanish, and I honestly cant think of anything that comes even close in terms of content, which is quite worrying when you think about it. I too picked up Assimil after reading Fanatics posts, and Im so glad I did. Edited by dbag on 21 April 2011 at 12:31am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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