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C2 vs native speaker | ||
Tags: Native Fluency | Advanced Level | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| albysky Triglot Senior Member Italy lang-8.com/1108796Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4381 days ago 287 posts - 393 votes  Speaks: Italian*, English, German | Message 1 of 47 24 November 2013 at 1:54pm | IP Logged | ||
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What is in your opinion the difference between a speaker who has passed a C2 examination and a naitive
speaker of the same language , I think there is a difference ,a fairly big one , do you agree ? What is you take on that ? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| fireballtrouble Triglot Senior Member Turkey Joined 4517 days ago 129 posts - 203 votes Speaks: Turkish*, French, English Studies: German | Message 2 of 47 24 November 2013 at 2:24pm | IP Logged | ||
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Tons and hosts of idiomatic expressions, ability to understand different accents in
detail, not missing anything said, knowing the aspects of the vocabulary rather than the word count. Edited by fireballtrouble on 24 November 2013 at 2:25pm 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4700 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 3 of 47 24 November 2013 at 2:30pm | IP Logged | ||
There is a difference, but it's on micro-level details. It doesn't really matter in terms of overall-functioning. C2 also refers to academic skills. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| irrationale Tetraglot Senior Member China Joined 6043 days ago 669 posts - 1023 votes 2 sounds Speaks: English*, Spanish, Mandarin, Tagalog Studies: Ancient Greek, Japanese | Message 4 of 47 24 November 2013 at 3:19pm | IP Logged | ||
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The upgrade from C2 to "educated native level" is the biggest of all, which is why very
few ever get there. Massive amount of differences, but yes, all in the details. Double or triple the passive vocab of C2, tons of proper nouns,culutral references that C2 wouldn't know, tons of idiomatic expressions, slang, perfect usage indestinguishable from a native, perfect understanding in nearly all situations,and working memory and math in L2 on par with L1. 9 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4615 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 5 of 47 24 November 2013 at 4:47pm | IP Logged | ||
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A lot also depends on whether the person with the C2 certificate has actually lived in an immersive
environment for a significant amount of time. As with any discipline, there is a difference between passing an academic exam and applying you knowledge in real life situations. Edited by beano on 24 November 2013 at 4:48pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5255 days ago 2241 posts - 6731 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 6 of 47 24 November 2013 at 5:00pm | IP Logged | ||
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This discussion seems to pop up every week now. Perhaps it stems from an innate desire for perfection that just isn't achievable for the vast majority of learners, especially those of us outside of target language countries. Striving for perfection can be worthy. On the other hand it can be very detrimental, especially when learners allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good.
As human beings, we know this, but something inside of some learners seems to demand perfection. What one can do with A2 in a language is quite useful. What one can do with B1, even more so. B2 gives a learner a license to romp and frolic, though imperfectly, within the language. B2 is a realistic goal, achievable through hard work and effort, persistence and consistency. Reaching B2, as a self-learner outside the TL country, takes a lot of effort. It is an accomplishment of which one can be very proud. You then realize that there's a lot more to learn. It takes even more work to make the leap to reach C1. C1 is a huge achievement. C2, to me, is an amazing accomplishment that takes even more work and effort to polish and refine one's skills. C1 and C2 require so much more dedication and effort. Reaching either would make most of us deliriously happy. Beyond that, is the brass ring that even the best learners will not be able to grab without spending a significant portion, perhaps even decades or the rest of one's life, in the TL country. That's why the CEFR doesn't have a C3 designation, and why I'm not worried about it- at all. Edited by iguanamon on 24 November 2013 at 6:31pm 22 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| 1e4e6 Octoglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4283 days ago 1013 posts - 1588 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan | Message 7 of 47 24 November 2013 at 8:51pm | IP Logged | ||
But sometimes native speakers cannot understand other native speakers of their own language. I used to have a lecturer from Londonderry/Derry that took me several months to understand due to the accent, for example, and right now during the Ashes series in Australia, I cannot fully understand half of the Australians that are interviewed in the broadcast. My grandmother also has serious problems understanding American English and accents, and Canadian accents. I have heard numerous times that Portuguese speakers in Portugal and Brazil have problems understanding each other, and that even subtitles are required for television programmes from the other country. I am not a native speaker of Portuguese, but I learn the European version, and I have major problems understanding Brazilian Portuguese television or speakers. Also C2 might be more difficult for someone who has not attended university due to the nature of the topics and discourse, or even more difficult, if they stopped school directly after primary school. Edited by 1e4e6 on 24 November 2013 at 11:51pm 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| catullus_roar Quadrilingual Octoglot Groupie Australia Joined 4561 days ago 89 posts - 184 votes Speaks: Malay, Hokkien*, English*, Mandarin*, Cantonese*, French, German, Spanish Studies: Italian, Latin, Armenian, Afrikaans, Russian | Message 8 of 47 25 November 2013 at 10:24am | IP Logged | ||
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There is a HUGE difference in speaking, but very minimal difference in reading, writing and listening. I think that this is due to the nature of the CEFR exams with a very strong emphasis on being able to craft a prepared speech etc as opposed to real, everyday discussion with a native speaker. I have passed the C2 en francais and it is a language that I use very often in real life. Still, when it comes to just having conversations, I am nowhere near a native speaker. There are still times when I want to say something but just do not know how to say it well.
Writing, however, is an area where I think I have surpassed some native speakers (like how some foreigners have better English than the average US or Australian teenager) and same for reading, which is easier in French than English sometimes. Listening is generally okay, but it's the speaking that gets me most of the time. 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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