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C2 vs native speaker | ||
Tags: Native Fluency | Advanced Level | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Lugubert Heptaglot Senior Member Sweden Joined 6860 days ago 186 posts - 235 votes  Speaks: Swedish*, Danish, Norwegian, EnglishC2, German, Dutch, French Studies: Mandarin, Hindi | Message 17 of 47 17 December 2013 at 11:28pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I don't feel comfortable with the CEFR levels. How many first-language speakers reach C2 levels on all parameters for another language? For French, I'm all over the scale. On a good day, I'm at listening a low A2. But you'd have to work hard to find a text that will challenge my claim to written C2 understanding. Customers sure go for my translations.
For written C2 vs. natives, an anecdote. I was on a translating job, Swedish to English: three native speakers and myself, all experienced professional translators. Very specialized subject and several other constraints in selecting the crew. We were supposed to review each other's work. One of the guys wasn't quite comfortable with me, the alien, commenting on his English. After a few sessions of different combinations among us, everybody accepted me as an equal partner. As discussed earlier, I sure make mistakes now and then on colloquialisms and current events, but generally, I think people on the Internet won't spot my unenglishness other than by my not making too many grammar or spelling errors. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| geoffw Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4681 days ago 1134 posts - 1865 votes Speaks: English*, German, Yiddish Studies: Modern Hebrew, French, Dutch, Italian, Russian | Message 18 of 47 17 December 2013 at 11:32pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
And we'll spot your unamericanness by your lack of lack of subtlety in your humor. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tastyonions Triglot Senior Member United States goo.gl/UIdChYRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4658 days ago 1044 posts - 1823 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 19 of 47 17 December 2013 at 11:33pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
That's pretty interesting! I imagine you could develop much better listening skills rather rapidly if your vocabulary is already so good. Do you just not have the motivation to do so? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tastyonions Triglot Senior Member United States goo.gl/UIdChYRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4658 days ago 1044 posts - 1823 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 20 of 47 17 December 2013 at 11:36pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I thought the British were supposed to be the ones with the subtle humor. We're just the savages cracking up at fart jokes, right? :-) 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| geoffw Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4681 days ago 1134 posts - 1865 votes Speaks: English*, German, Yiddish Studies: Modern Hebrew, French, Dutch, Italian, Russian | Message 21 of 47 17 December 2013 at 11:37pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Read more carefully... EDIT: You may have gotten confused if your brain was partially in Spanish mode. Edited by geoffw on 17 December 2013 at 11:42pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tastyonions Triglot Senior Member United States goo.gl/UIdChYRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4658 days ago 1044 posts - 1823 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 22 of 47 17 December 2013 at 11:44pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I'll put it down to having just woken up from a nap. :-)
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| Cristianoo Triglot Senior Member Brazil https://projetopoligRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4114 days ago 175 posts - 289 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, FrenchB2, English Studies: Russian | Message 23 of 47 18 December 2013 at 2:48am | IP Logged | ||||||||
not missing anything said => That's not true. Sometimes you miss words, but since you're native you will consider this rather a noisy or a accent issue than a language fault. And also, there's tons of words you don't know in your own language. Even non-field related words. And this is not considered as a lack of language. Probably just because one is a native. In my opinion, the difference from a native and a fluent is the foreign accent. If someone can speak without a foreign accent (which is very rare) he/she is a native to me. My father-in-law is japanese and he speaks portuguese without jp accent 99% of the time. So I guess the difference here relies on this 1% left. My co-worker came from Colombia. He speaks almost 100% portuguese without accent. It took me 3 months to realise that he was not a Brazilian and I only noticed it because of a strange 'si' instead of 'sim' (yes) that seemed like spoken in Spanish. And I remember that I taught: Hmm.. I think this guys is a native, but he probably have studied abroad and got this strange 'si'... So I guess the difference relies on the foreign accent. If someone can speak without it, it's a native speaker to me. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Lugubert Heptaglot Senior Member Sweden Joined 6860 days ago 186 posts - 235 votes Speaks: Swedish*, Danish, Norwegian, EnglishC2, German, Dutch, French Studies: Mandarin, Hindi | Message 24 of 47 18 December 2013 at 10:18am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Yes, probably most of the problem is lack of motivation. But it might be aggravated by faulty eardrum signal processing before the information gets to the language centres. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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