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German "you" | ||
Tags: Polite/Informal Forms | German | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| Speakeasy Senior Member Canada Joined 3997 days ago 507 posts - 1098 votes  Studies: German | Message 1 of 4 18 March 2014 at 6:05pm | IP Logged | ||
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I have a question concerning the use of "you" in German. The following is a passage taken from a German text published in 1826:
Der Amtmann sitz schon an seinem Schreibtisch und sieht mich an. "Wie heiβt Ihr und woher kommt Ihr?" will er wissen. Ich sage es ihm. "Könnt Ihr lesen, schreiben und rechnen?" Ich sage "Ja." "Ja dann. Die Einnehmerstelle ist frei. Ihr habt Euch gut geführt, man is mit Euch zufrieden, kurz: Ihr solt die Stelle bekommen. Ab sofort könnt Ihr im Zollhaus wohnen!" I am an independent learner of German and, to date, all of the self-instructional courses, books of verbs, and grammars that I have used would leave me to expect that the two individuals, who have heretofore never met one another, would use (a) "Sie" as a matter of politeness, or, at the very least (b) a combination of "Sie" and "Du", which might reflect their different social status’. The use of "Ihr/Euch" perplexes me. Could someone please explain the apparent discrepancy for me? Edited by Speakeasy on 18 March 2014 at 6:06pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Doitsujin Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5265 days ago 1256 posts - 2363 votes Speaks: German*, English | Message 2 of 4 18 March 2014 at 6:25pm | IP Logged | ||
In the 17th and 18th centuries, second person plural pronouns were often used to address people of a (perceived) lower station. For more information see this German Wikipedia page. @Josquin: You are of course correct, Ihr is the plural form, however, the usage is pretty much similar to using Er. (I updated the link.) Edited by Doitsujin on 18 March 2014 at 6:31pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4789 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 3 of 4 18 March 2014 at 6:25pm | IP Logged | ||
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Adressing a single person with "Ihr" is a dated way of speech, typical of the feudal society. It disappeared with the rise of the civil society and was replaced by "Sie" in the course of the 19th century.
@Doitsujin: This isn't a third person singular pronoun but the second person plural. Edited by Josquin on 18 March 2014 at 6:26pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Speakeasy Senior Member Canada Joined 3997 days ago 507 posts - 1098 votes Studies: German | Message 4 of 4 18 March 2014 at 10:14pm | IP Logged | ||
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To you both,
Thank you very much for the explanation. I suspected a shift in usage in German, as happened in English, and as has happened, or as is still happening, in the Romance languages. Vielen, vielen Dank! 1 person has voted this message useful |
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