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Pronunciation in Ancient Greek | ||
Tags: Ancient Greek | Greek | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| Belardur Octoglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5556 days ago 148 posts - 195 votes  Speaks: English*, GermanC2, Spanish, Dutch, Latin, Ancient Greek, French, Lowland Scots Studies: Biblical Hebrew, Italian, Arabic (Written), Mandarin, Korean | Message 1 of 8 11 October 2013 at 5:18pm | IP Logged | ||
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So, I promise this isn't supposed to create an argument about the merits of different pronunciation schemes...
Has anyone ever switched pronunciation schemes in Ancient Greek after having learned a certain way? I ask because I basically learned a German-influenced Erasmian, but a lot of the resources I have in audio use either a modern or reconstructed pronunciation. I'm wondering if it is worth the trouble to re-learn the pronunciation rules, or if I just shouldn't worry about it. I get funny looks sometimes with the way I say some of the dipthongs... An additional concern is that I might be tapped to assist teaching it in the future - should I worry about teaching the pronunciation I have learned? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Lykeio Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4189 days ago 120 posts - 357 votes | Message 2 of 8 11 October 2013 at 6:17pm | IP Logged | ||
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Yes as I may have mentioned here before, I've switched from a modern Greek pronunciation
(well, as in I had modern Greek as a home language etc) to a reconstructed classical. It is quite possible to do so. I started by memorising and practising minimal pairs and went from there... Whether or not it matters, its up to you. And the institution in which you might be teaching I suppose. Also I'm not sure how much of a difference it will make for most people, It depends how good you are with accents. For me, once the classical hat comes on, its all classical. Ok, I admit, I still find ypsillon really gorram hard. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| renaissancemedi Bilingual Triglot Senior Member Greece Joined 4303 days ago 941 posts - 1309 votes Speaks: Greek*, Ancient Greek*, EnglishC2 Studies: French, Russian, Turkish, Modern Hebrew | Message 3 of 8 13 October 2013 at 11:47am | IP Logged | ||
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I think you should follow the norm about teaching in your country/academic environment etc. But you could also make the effort to understand other kinds of accent, even try them out just to have them under your belt. Switching is very possible.
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| ElComadreja Senior Member Philippines bibletranslatio Joined 7183 days ago 683 posts - 757 votes 2 sounds Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Portuguese, Latin, Ancient Greek, Biblical Hebrew, Cebuano, French, Tagalog | Message 4 of 8 28 January 2014 at 6:43pm | IP Logged | ||
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Yes, someone I know got used to the modern Greek scheme for the GNT (after using some
reconstructed way for years) because he found some free recordings that were read that way. It didn't seem like a big deal, because there's actually less to remember because many things start to be said the same way, and he always points out when the modern way makes more sense to our English ears. Edited by ElComadreja on 06 February 2014 at 6:08pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Cabaire Senior Member Germany Joined 5544 days ago 725 posts - 1352 votes | Message 5 of 8 28 January 2014 at 8:24pm | IP Logged | ||
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I once tried to read Homer in a pre-classical pronunciation:
y: ῠ / ῡ ει: eː ου: oː ω: ɔː ῳ: ɔːi φ: pʰ etc. The words sound quite different due to the vowel shifts. The Greek sounds more "broad", because there are more [o/ɔ]s and no [y]s. A problem is always to determine which υs, ιs and αs are short, and which are long. Most often accents and metre will disclose it, but in closed syllables there is no way to see it and the dictionaries do not indicate it. But that is a problem in classical Greek too. Ι mean, is γαστήρ [gastɛ´ːr] or [gaːstɛ´ːr] 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Lykeio Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4189 days ago 120 posts - 357 votes | Message 6 of 8 28 January 2014 at 10:39pm | IP Logged | ||
Those are Classical values and the first /a/ in your example is indeed short. Greek sounds broad because...well it is. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Cabaire Senior Member Germany Joined 5544 days ago 725 posts - 1352 votes | Message 7 of 8 29 January 2014 at 12:37am | IP Logged | ||
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Well, the classicists I know use a vowel scheme of the late classical time, where υ is already [y(:)] and ου an [u:] and the long diphthongs have become simple long vowels. And you do not have to think any more about whether ει is a real diphthong [ei] or a spurious diphthong [e:], because they merged.
PS. The school pronunciation where φ is already [f], but β still [ b] is of course an acronological mess. And you have to dive deep into the vocabulary if you learn for every word the vowel quantities that e.g. the υ in θυμός [thy:mos] is long, but in θυσία [thysia:] it is short. Well, nobody can hope to be perfect... Edited by Cabaire on 29 January 2014 at 12:38am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Lykeio Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4189 days ago 120 posts - 357 votes | Message 8 of 8 29 January 2014 at 2:30am | IP Logged | ||
You know, one often hears this but the fact is that these changes still aren't done, let alone late Classical. Tsakonian (a Koine influenced Doric dialect) retains υ as /y/, as do several Asia Minor and Pontic dialects (along with other hypoconservatisms like η as long e). Likewise, it's clearly not so simple with this sound. Anyway you know what? it doesn't matter, I'm not going to lecture anyone on historical Greek phonology...I've done this stuff too many times in the past. I'm guessing since you claim a "late Classical" pronunciation you're working with biblical texts in which case I admit to just using my modern Greek despite how incorrect it is. As for diving deep into vocabulary. I don't know. My training is by its nature deep and I'm being picked up for a 5 year research project which requires it to run yet deeper since we're handling previously untouched data so I'm sure to get better but...I don't think its as difficult as one thinks. It is hard, it requires serious concentration but after a while you'll arrive at the ability to guess reasonably based on things like experience of metre, sound patterns via poetry, comparative philology (if that's your thing). You'll start to develop a sort of...feel in your mouth and ears for it and while its nothing you'd trust 100% to pass an exam it's more than enough. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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