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Why don’t you write a perfect course? | ||
Tags: Alexander Arguelles | Textbooks | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Lessons in Polyglottery |  | |
| DaraghM Diglot Senior Member Ireland Joined 6141 days ago 1947 posts - 2923 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French, Russian, Hungarian | Message 9 of 78 28 April 2009 at 1:43pm | IP Logged | ||
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Professor,
One truly unique selling point would be combined language courses. Within the Romance family of languages, you could include the audio for Italian, Spanish, Portuguese and French for the same sentences, and compare the evolution of phonology and orthography in each. Depending on the course length you could then include Romanian, or even Catalan and Breton examples. If you included the false cognates between them, this would focus a trainee polyglot on avoiding mixups. E.g. pronto-soon (SP), pronto-ready (IT). This would make it a course truly designed for Polyglots. D.Malone. Edited by DaraghM on 28 April 2009 at 1:46pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| ProfArguelles Moderator United States foreignlanguageexper Joined 7246 days ago 609 posts - 2102 votes | Message 10 of 78 28 April 2009 at 3:34pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thank you all for the input thus far.
The publishers know full well who I am and what I stand for - they want and expect this to be a formal, structured, systematic, and thorough line of courses. When I brought up the concept of having the methods be parallel so as to facilitate the learning of multiple languages by polyglots, that was favorably received. However, this is not to be a highly specialized niche line of products designed exclusively for polyglots. Rather, it is an attempt to reintroduce the rigor that has been lost in language methods over the past few decades, and the courses must be accessible to and useful for "typical" language learners first and foremost - i.e., for people who need to learn a specific language for a specific reason. There is certainly lots of room to provide them more substance than is currently available in other methods. At the same time, it is also certainly possible to produce methods that will indeed serve to facilitate the development of polyglottery, but that must be an incidental corollary of producing content rich and thoroughly systematic courses for those who seek to learn a single language. More brainstorming, please! Thank you. Alexander Arguelles 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| andee Tetraglot Senior Member Japan Joined 7067 days ago 681 posts - 724 votes 3 sounds Speaks: English*, German, Korean, French | Message 11 of 78 28 April 2009 at 4:17pm | IP Logged | ||
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I second the usuable audio sans audacity manipulation! And second the parallel idea.
It's going to be hard to produce something that appeals to the everyday language learner unless the price will compete with those cemented in the door, ie, TY, Colloquial, etc ..and obviously Assimil. I for one have always thought Linguaphone too pricey when new as a guideline. Something missing from many texts driven by dialogue are readers. Having readers that progress throughout the text offer another dimension in my opinion. For instance, you are exposed to dialogue as that is the main element of the course structure, but in having the reader with each module you are then exposed to a larger monologue, which would assist comprehension in other areas; broadcasting comprehension, storytelling, etc. Andee Pollard 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| jondesousa Tetraglot Senior Member United States goo.gl/Zgg3nRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6254 days ago 227 posts - 297 votes Speaks: English*, Portuguese, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Mandarin, Spanish | Message 12 of 78 28 April 2009 at 5:32pm | IP Logged | ||
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Professor Arguelles,
I frequently check the forums for interesting information; however, as I don’t feel that I can always contribute anything of value beyond the posts already made, I don’t often post. Here is a topic where I feel I can add something of use. Having read most of your posts along with some of the other threads within this subforum, I believe that there are some interesting weaknesses that can be exploited in other publisher’s current offerings as well as some other added characteristics which you personally bring to the table –in terms of study techniques, etc. – which I feel could significantly distinguish your product from most of the other (pardon my French) crap out there. In regards to weaknesses that other publishers are missing, I believe that the most important is a lack of cohesion and/or path of materials to go from no knowledge of a language to relative fluency. Most courses are reasonable at covering beginning steps within a language; however, I have yet to find a cohesive course (or set of courses) that have a path from nothing to fluency. [Please understand I use the term fluency to mean the capability to understand (oral communication) and read (written communication) in a language material meant for native speakers to enjoy.] Such a course system would ideally –in my opinion- have four levels: Level 1: Beginner level material (basic grammar instruction, dialogues, etc.) Level 2: Intermediate level material (more comprehensive grammar instruction as needed, expanded vocabulary selection in dialogues, etc.) Level 3: Advanced level material (complete grammar instruction of finer points of the language, items that native speakers may not expect a foreigner to use correctly) Level 4: Use of native level materials (ie. a Reader/Audio program). Teach Yourself series has a few books of this flavor that are essentially unscripted dialogs of native speakers with the transcript provided in the book. They call these books “Improve Your . . .” where . . . is the language being studied. I have the “Improve your Italian” book and CD’s and they are somewhat intimidating but very helpful in bringing your language to that near native level. I would highly recommend that each course include a detailed section in the first chapter that would cover the ideal study techniques for students to use (ie. Scriptorium, Shadowing, etc.) including links to your youtube videos to help clarify the finer points. This would have been very useful to me earlier in my studies. Too much wasted time to cry over now . Also, Professor, I understand that you wish to have independent courses for students who are not “polyglot aspirer’s” so to speak; however, I think this would be an opportune time for you to suggest adding your book on polyglottery as a reference manual to accompany these courses. It could benefit both those aspiring to polyglottery as well as the individual student. As regard the suggestion to create a book outlining comparisons and differences between languages, I think this could be an independent reference book in the series as well for those wishing to study many languages. I personally can attest (since I am studying Italian and Portuguese) that my Portuguese studies would be more efficient if I understood all of the similarities, differences, etc. between these two languages. I am currently learning them as I go, but again this seems to be wasted effort. Finally, Professor, I believe that it would behoove you to test some of the material you create. You could find many guinea pigs on this forum (myself included) who could review your initial passes. You could test the efficacy of the courses by simple telephone or Skype discussions with students after they have used the material. You could then personally assess the readiness and efficacy of each course. I assume you would start with French and German courses and I personally would be happy to volunteer to evaluate and study hard any material you provide as well as discuss (in the target language) with you what I have learned so you could evaluate what you have produced. So sorry for the terribly long-winded post, but I feel that well laid out courses would be something I would gladly pay for. Sincerely, Jon Edited by jondesousa on 28 April 2009 at 5:33pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| DaraghM Diglot Senior Member Ireland Joined 6141 days ago 1947 posts - 2923 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French, Russian, Hungarian | Message 13 of 78 28 April 2009 at 5:41pm | IP Logged | ||
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Professor,
Contrary to what others may say, one of my frustrations with modern courses is their heavy reliance on dialogues. You identified a tendency in modern language instruction to use a phrase book approach. I would love to buy a course that contained passages from either the literature of the language, or pieces about the people and culture. I tend to learn dialogues off by heart, during shadowing and similar techniques. It would feel far less of a waste if the passage was of a factual nature. If dialogues are used, they should be interviews with significant personalities within that culture, or extracts from famous films, plays or theatre. Assimil has done this to a very limited extent, but this could be expanded to an entire course. It would greatly increase the value of scriptorium sessions, as you have the correct model for pronunciation. D.Malone. Edited by DaraghM on 28 April 2009 at 5:47pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| ProfArguelles Moderator United States foreignlanguageexper Joined 7246 days ago 609 posts - 2102 votes | Message 14 of 78 28 April 2009 at 6:12pm | IP Logged | ||
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Many thanks to all for the continued helpful feedback. To streamline the matter a bit more, if you have recently worked through a current offering in an existing product line, where did you find it lacking? Where and how did it shortchange the learner, or what did it not do enough of that it could and should have done more of? If you can, please answer specifically, concisely, and concretely for: Assimil, Linguaphone, Teach Yourself, Colloquial, Living Language, Michel Thomas, etc.
Thank you all! Alexander Arguelles 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Juan M. Senior Member Colombia Joined 5889 days ago 460 posts - 597 votes | Message 15 of 78 28 April 2009 at 7:26pm | IP Logged | ||
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Aside from overall quality, for me there are two elements that an ideal language course would possess.
First, complete translation of all content in the target language would have to be provided on the same page, avoiding thus the wasteful and time-consuming process of having to look up the meaning of words and phrases in an appendix, ancillary or dictionary. The second element is robustness. The course would comprise several volumes taking the student from complete beginner to the point where he or she can begin reading literature in the target language with a dictionary by their side. For this, vocabulary and grammar would have to be methodically introduced at a manageable pace and constantly reinforced in subsequent lessons. A variety of forms and topics reflecting the diversity of language and its multifarious employment would be ideal, from descriptive texts to pattern drills to fill-in-the-blanks and translation exercises, and from everyday conversation to instructions on how to operate an appliance to newspaper reports to culture and history of the target language's peoples to essays to scientific articles and to literature, all while deliberately and systematically building up the lexical, grammatical and expressive stock of the student. Well thought-out iteration of vocabulary would be a guiding principle throughout; having words appear once or twice never to be seen again for months is useless for the learner. Needless to say, answers to everything would have to be provided. The presentation of grammar should be clear, methodical, precise and thorough, making use of charts and tables for easy reference and clarification, but as in the case of vocabulary, should proceed at a pace that doesn't overwhelm. Assimilation should be induced through a copious and creative use of example, illustration and constant reinforcement. This course would be geared towards the serious student who wishes to acquire a meaningful mastery of a language, and would be sold as a series of four, five or six volumes. If quality and content match structure, it would be regarded as definitive for the given language. Edited by JuanM on 29 April 2009 at 2:31am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| leonidus Triglot Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 6316 days ago 113 posts - 123 votes Speaks: Russian*, English, French Studies: German, Mandarin | Message 16 of 78 28 April 2009 at 7:43pm | IP Logged | ||
Wow, I'd purchase something like that. At the moment I incline to start Spanish, but am afraid it can interfere with my French due to overlapping vocabulary. A course like that would certainly be great in helping to memorize distinctions and similarities in a coordinated and structured way. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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