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If you went to college what did you major | ||
 Language Learning Forum : Languages & Work |  | |
 Fasulye Heptaglot Winner TAC 2012 Moderator Germany fasulyespolyglotblog Joined 5850 days ago 5460 posts - 6006 votes  1 sounds Speaks: German*, DutchC1, EnglishB2, French, Italian, Spanish, Esperanto Studies: Latin, Danish, Norwegian, Turkish Personal Language Map | Message 105 of 169 03 October 2009 at 11:09am | IP Logged | ||||||||
That's a point! I regret a lot that as a young "Abiturientin" I didn't even think of going to university in a foreign country. I wasn't so orientated towards foreign languages then and it would have been beyond my horizon. I had so many problems later with the phenomenon "academic freedom" which is typical for German universities, that a different study structure in a foreign European country might have prevented the failure of my university studies. Fasulye Edited by Fasulye on 03 October 2009 at 11:10am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| JasonBourne Groupie United States Joined 5755 days ago 65 posts - 111 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Japanese, Arabic (Written), Turkish | Message 106 of 169 06 October 2009 at 10:32am | IP Logged | ||||||||
You've got it backwards my friend. Colleges need to focus MORE on vocational skills. With skyrocketing education costs (my college cost over $35,000 per year in tuition alone) students want and have the right to expect that a college degree should be a positive investment in their future, not just in the intangible sense. American employeers no longer care about education, it's about the EXPERIENCE. A person with 1-2 years of experience and no degree will beat out the kid who actually bothered getting the degree but lacks the experience 9 times out of 10. Quick hire/fire moves to meet short term market expectations is the name of the game today and there is no need in the employer's mind to foster and retain an "educated" workforce. Masters degrees are becoming increasingly pointless and America is flooded with underemployed PhDs cramming for the same jobs. I admire you're respect for the intangible benefits of a college degree but, realistically, no one wants to pay $50,000-150,000 on an education and end up selling vacuums door-to-door. I believe (as do many experts) student loan debt will be a HUGE drain on the economy in my generation's time. Only a more focused, VOCATIONAL, attitude towards education will get us out of that mess. It's like Woody Allen's joke "Everything our parents said was good, is bad. Sun, milk, red meat...college." :P 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Belardur Octoglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5614 days ago 148 posts - 195 votes Speaks: English*, GermanC2, Spanish, Dutch, Latin, Ancient Greek, French, Lowland Scots Studies: Biblical Hebrew, Italian, Arabic (Written), Mandarin, Korean | Message 107 of 169 06 October 2009 at 11:41am | IP Logged | ||||||||
And this mindset (no personal offense, I'm not trying to be rude, rather, to illustrate my previous point) is why we have the result that we do. The curse of specialization rears its head, we make sure everyone studies skills, and culture stagnates. If we ignore education's value in personal development because employers don't care about it (and shame on us in the first place for allowing this situation to be) then the ability to appreciate and take part in culture, to understand the underpinnings of all rather than just our field, and to be a well-rounded person (rather than a monodimensional wage-slave, or societal rebel that works just to play) will all once again become only the province of the rich or privileged. Yay for the new aristocracy. 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| OneEye Diglot Senior Member Japan Joined 6853 days ago 518 posts - 784 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, Taiwanese, German, French | Message 108 of 169 06 October 2009 at 2:21pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Hooray for the skilled and unlearned, without whom America would not be what it is today. American culture today is lowbrow at best, and we've let it get to that point by demanding that our universities teach us more and educate us less. I know that I can learn how to do just about anything, but you can't teach the ignorant how to think. You can have your skillset; I'll take my education.
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| Belardur Octoglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5614 days ago 148 posts - 195 votes Speaks: English*, GermanC2, Spanish, Dutch, Latin, Ancient Greek, French, Lowland Scots Studies: Biblical Hebrew, Italian, Arabic (Written), Mandarin, Korean | Message 109 of 169 06 October 2009 at 2:23pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Another way of looking at the same problem, OneEye and I more or less agree, I think. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| lloydkirk Diglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6416 days ago 429 posts - 452 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Russian | Message 110 of 169 06 October 2009 at 6:30pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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OneEye: I don't know if we live in the same USA? The typical college here is a liberal arts curriculum(liberal being the key word), with perhaps a handful of classes in your major subject. I mean, the first two years are general ed for pete's sake. Nowhere else in the world can you get a more generalist education. And I disagree, that it an educational institution's initiative to teach you how to think and ignorance is a completely subjective word generally thrown around by the people it describes.
College NEEDS to be more vocational. Employers don't hire intellectuals and childish philosophers, they want practical skills. Anyways, Jason is right, a waste of money. I can read doestoevsky and descartes on my own, though I'd probably burn the latter. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Belardur Octoglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5614 days ago 148 posts - 195 votes Speaks: English*, GermanC2, Spanish, Dutch, Latin, Ancient Greek, French, Lowland Scots Studies: Biblical Hebrew, Italian, Arabic (Written), Mandarin, Korean | Message 111 of 169 06 October 2009 at 7:03pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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lloydkirk, you didn't address me, but I'm going to respond regardless.
Firstly, let me point out that ad hominem attacks are unwelcome and not conducive to the discussion. There's no need to imply that OneEye is ignorant simply because you disagree with him.
Now, to the point. The typical college in the US is half "general education" in topics such as basic use of English, and subjects that should have been covered in High School, but weren't because the inability of students to pass is interpreted as the curriculum being too hard. Note that in this you catch maybe one literature class, no logic, no analytical thinking, and perfunctory philosophical and ethical surveys. Your assertion comparing the education in the US and the rest of the world is actually a red herring, as we are not talking about generalism, rather personal development. That said, care to found that statement? I find it lacking, and don't beleive it's true. Feel free to disagree that an institution is responsible for teaching thought and appreciation. Where then do we learn it? At home, as works so well now? Or do we reinvent the wheel (so to speak) each new generation? I dispute that ignorance is subjective when one is referring to a cultural standard of education and awareness. This cultural level is continually (on average) lowering, and thus is progressively more ignorant - from an objective standpoint. No one made a subjective statement regarding ignorance. Your last paragraph mixes an opinion, which I disagree with (vocational schools should feel free to be vocational. Much of what people get a bachelor's degree in now could be adequately served by a 18, 24 or even 36 month apprenticeship - vocational education model), and a couple thinly - veiled attacks (which I take personal exception to, especially the comment about "childish philosophers") which have no place in this discussion. If you do wish to debate the issue, please set forth coherent arguments, and establish your position, and we can go from there. Note: none of this is intended to be rude or belligerent, and should not be taken as such. It is meant with the utmost respect for all individuals, and their right to their own opinion. 8 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| OneEye Diglot Senior Member Japan Joined 6853 days ago 518 posts - 784 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, Taiwanese, German, French | Message 112 of 169 06 October 2009 at 8:42pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Thinly veiled, that last line.
I'd argue that this is because their secondary education system is that much better. We study 2 years of general studies here just to catch up with the UK, but that doesn't even happen, because like you said, they've had 3 years of nothing but their major field, while we've had more like a year and a half of it. Hence why so many in the US feel the need to go for Master's degrees. By that point, we have more or less caught up. If people were held to a higher standard of education during their secondary school rather than lowering standards for people without the drive to make decent grades, then we could enjoy a better education during undergrad school. There wouldn't be a need for general education requirements during undergrad because you would have covered it all in high school. 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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