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GoogleTranslator is killing my future | ||
 Language Learning Forum : Languages & Work |  | |
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6706 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes  Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 57 of 63 12 November 2012 at 10:48am | IP Logged | ||
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Well, maybe Dutch translations have become better within the last year or so where I have stopped using the service, but I remember from earlier times that there were certain very common expressions which systematically fell to pieces in the translations to and from English and (as a consequence) other languages.
However the vehement protests from Tommus made me try out the system once again, and one of the tests was expressions with Dutch 'er', which I remember as a particular problem area. And maybe things have improved because an English sentence like "There is a house and New Orleans" was translated into "Er is een huis in New Orleans" and vice versa. A sentence like "Het mag duidelijk zijn dat niets overleeft in zoutzuur, mits je er genoeg van hebt" became "It is clear that nothing survives in HCl*, if you have enough of it", which on the way home became "Het is duidelijk dat niets overleeft in HCl, als je er genoeg van hebt", which doesn't ring many alarm bells(though native Dutch speakers have the final word about the word order). It seems that the problems which irritated me earlier in my Dutch learning process have been dealt with, and that's fine. Actually Dutch is a fairly well documented language with lots of translations back and forth, so there was no logical reason for the earlier problems. But the Latin translations are still abominable - both ways and irrespective of the choice of the other language. The sentence constructions are as a rule misinterpreted, and there are immense holes in the vocabulary - probably because of the dearth and age of the available bilingual texts. The choice of the other language is not important as long as all translations run through English (except maybe Esperanto, where I found signs that Spanish play the intermediary role). If the transmission between Latin and English has gone awry then even the best translation function between English and another language can't restore the logic. *hydrochloric acid PS: a couple of horror stories here and here for interpreters in spe, especially in the UK: "Even in the old days, when there were competent interpreters, there was the problem of sympathetic interpreters being creative with the evidence. I have been present at a hearing where there was the following exchange: Witness: My uncle is a bastard, he makes me work all day and he gives me no money! Study study study, work work work, I just want to go back home. Interpreter: Shut up, you stupid girl, do you want to be sent back after all your parents have paid for your studies? Witness: But he is a bastard. Immigration Judge: What is the answer to the question? Interpreter: She says her uncle has never mistreated her. And: Witness: Ouay. Interpreter: He says no. Judge: I am not familiar with Mauritian Creole, but I would have thought "Ouay" would mean "Yes". Interpreter: He meant no." "(...), a German sailor was on trial in the High Court of Justiciary in Glasgow for, as I recall, Assault to the Danger of Life. There was no interpreter, or the interpreter had failed to appear. The accused elected to give evidence, but did not speak English. The presiding judge then addressed the public gallery and asked if there was anyone present who perchance spoke German. It happened that there was a Rab C. Nesbitt character, an alcoholic using a public Court to shelter from the rain. The tramp staggered to his feet and said 'Aye, my Lord, I speak the Gairman'. (..) The first question of course, for the accused in evidence in chief, was 'What is your name?' 'Can you translate for the accused please?' asked the judge. 'Aye' said the tramp and turning to the accused uttered the immortal words: 'Vot ist yer fu*kin' name?'" And a joke (I hope) from the same source: A Spanish speaking bandit held up a bank in Tucson. The sheriff and his deputy chased him. When they captured him, and the sheriff, who couldn't speak Spanish, asked him where he'd hidden the money. "No sé nada," he replied. The sheriff put a gun to the bandit's head and said to his bi-lingual deputy: "Tell him that if he doesn't tell us where the money is right now, I'll blow his brains out." Upon receiving the translation, the bandit became very animated. "¡Ya me acuerdo! Tienen que caminar tres cuadras hasta ese gran arbol: allí está el dinero." The sheriff leaned forward. "Yeah? Well..?" The deputy replied: "He says he wants to die like a man." Maybe Google translate isn't your worst nightmare Edited by Iversen on 12 November 2012 at 11:21am 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4710 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 58 of 63 12 November 2012 at 11:14am | IP Logged | ||
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Word order in the sentence you mentioned is fine, Iversen, although I personally wouldn't
phrase it exactly like that (the phrasing used is correct however). Het mag duidelijk zijn dat is an idiomatic usage of a phrase so there's no harm in replacing it by "het is duidelijk dat". Het mag duidelijk zijn implies a kind of force, as in, "it's pretty obvious this is the case". Mits and als are practically synonyms but mits is a bit more formal and always precedes a positive cause: (you can do this, given that you do that as well; je kunt dit doen, mits je dat en dat ook doet) Edited by tarvos on 12 November 2012 at 11:14am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Iwwersetzerin Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member Luxembourg Joined 5672 days ago 259 posts - 513 votes Speaks: French*, Luxembourgish*, GermanC2, EnglishC2, SpanishC2, DutchC1, ItalianC1 Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin | Message 59 of 63 13 November 2012 at 12:00pm | IP Logged | ||
Yes, yes and yes. The problem with this profession is that it is not regulated and that anybody can start working as a translator or interpreter today without needing any diploma or experience or skills. The EU is currently DESPERATELY looking to recruit qualified interpreters, especially into English. The reason: the first generation of EU interpreters is entering retirement age and since language education is getting worse and worse in many countries, there simply aren't enough people with high-level language skills, let alone interpreting skills, that can be hired to replace them. A few words regarding the anecdotes about court interpreting above. Court interpreting is currently a complete mess in many European countries. In the UK, all court interpreting was outsourced to one company who clearly bit off more than they could chew. Above all, the pay they offered was so low and the working conditions so poor that 9 out of 10 qualified interpreters boycotted them, so they were left with incompetent "bilinguals" who often didn't speak the language well and had no idea about legal terminology or the English legal system. Result: utter chaos and mistrials. It's so bad, there is a parliamentary investigation underway. Last week, in Belgium, a Brazilian national was arrested for drug trafficking. Instead of going to trial in Belgium, he was simply sent back to Brazil, because they couldn't find a court interpreter for Brazilian Portuguese. There are more than enough qualified interpreters for Brazilian Portuguese in Belgium, but most of them refuse to work for the courts, because they are 2 YEARS behind in paying the interpreters. So, Iversen is right, Google Translate is not the worst nightmare. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4671 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 60 of 63 13 November 2012 at 5:25pm | IP Logged | ||
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It's strange they weren't able to find a interpreter for Portuguese in Brussels.
Brazilian Portuguese is still Portuguese, it's not Chinese. ;) Maybe they looked for a interpreter for ''Brazilian'' and couldn't find any. Weird. Edited by Medulin on 13 November 2012 at 5:26pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Iwwersetzerin Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member Luxembourg Joined 5672 days ago 259 posts - 513 votes Speaks: French*, Luxembourgish*, GermanC2, EnglishC2, SpanishC2, DutchC1, ItalianC1 Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin | Message 61 of 63 13 November 2012 at 6:23pm | IP Logged | ||
Well, as I said, there are quite a few interpreters for Portuguese in Belgium, but most of them don't want to work for the courts, since they will have to wait a very long time to get paid (2 years in some cases). They probably found some interpreters, they just didn't find one that was willing to work for the court or the police under these conditions. Wouldn't surprise me though if somebody searched for "Brazilian" and didn't know it was Portuguese. I have been asked quite a few times if I speak Mexican. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 songlines Pro Member Canada flickr.com/photos/cp Joined 5212 days ago 729 posts - 1056 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French Personal Language Map | Message 62 of 63 14 November 2012 at 3:48am | IP Logged | ||
Indeed; I'd previously posted a few links about this on the Career Interpreting thread: http://how-to-learn-any- language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15532&PN=1&TPN=2#3346 01 (Copy and paste, removing any spaces inserted by the forum software). DG Interpretation (the EU's interpreting arm) has a number of other interesting Youtube clips too. Well worth checking out if you're thinking of going into the field. - Or even just to satisfy your language geekery curiosity. One very interesting blog from a professional translator and interpreter is www.nakedtranslations.com. It includes a thread with quite a number of replies on Advice to a translation student. And returning to the topic of this thread, Google Translate's not going to be able replicate this type of translation any time soon: Translating vous and tu. (Leaving aside the debate as to whether the "compensatory" technique in the first example was going too far.) Edited by songlines on 14 November 2012 at 3:58am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6706 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 63 of 63 14 November 2012 at 12:23pm | IP Logged | ||
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In a thread about ways to change your language list here at HTLAL Iguanamon used the phrase: "You can also detail your skills in the language". My immediate reaction was "I daresay" (because I know that you get a ton of questions about your new languages if you add an item), and next thought was: how would Google deal with that idiomatic expression. Actually Google translated it into Danish "kanske" which is more like 'maybe' (literally 'can-happen') - with an impossible hybrid "jeg daresay" as its only other suggestion. However the correct translation would be something like "det tør antydes" (literally 'that dares be-suggested'), which Google translated into English as "the dry implied" (Danish "tør" as an adjective means 'dry'). HAhahahahaha...
I like Google translate. It is useful (especially from a target to your base language, where you can spot the errors), but it is also funny. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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