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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4525 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes  Studies: German | Message 1273 of 1317 17 June 2015 at 10:43am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
That's definitely my impression as well. The graduate students I used to work with here in Berlin were all at least C1 in English, that was a requirement, but most of them were not super fluent, and certainly not comfortable in the language. My impression is that you are probably higher and lower than C1 in various tasks on the checklist (though you could certainly pass >50% on all levels), but this is fairly irrelevant as your posts consistently show a desire to be fluent and comfortable in the language, which is not my impression of C1 (at least for English). Edited by patrickwilken on 17 June 2015 at 10:44am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| PeterMollenburg Senior Member AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5468 days ago 821 posts - 1273 votes Speaks: English* Studies: FrenchB1 | Message 1274 of 1317 17 June 2015 at 10:54am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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@garyb, patrickwilken, emk
I think it could be stated that on the road to high fluency/comfort level with using the language (at ease in almost any given everyday situation including a professional environment relevant to your field- forgive me if a bit off in the description of emk's goal) that aiming to sit and pass C1 and C2 exams isn't exactly heading into an entirely different direction. I mean you'd still be learning French and it's not like passing a C1/C2 exam(s) is going to stop you (emk) from reaching your end goal, right? I mean it's going to help in some respects at least. Edited by PeterMollenburg on 17 June 2015 at 11:39am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5524 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 1275 of 1317 17 June 2015 at 12:38pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
Done! This log is now titled "French: Enjoying what I've learned", which accurate represents my current aspirations. :-) It's probably also the most productive thing for me to do at this point, short of moving to the francophonie. Update: I reserve the right to change the name several more times until I like it. If I were going to use a French name, I think it might be Il faut en profiter.
"Activation" can mean two things: 1. Having strong receptive skills, and turning them into productive skills. 2. Having potentially decent productive skills, but needing sleep + coffee + warmup to be truly at ease. (2) is my real problem. You've seen how I speak French with no warmup, and sctroyenne has now seen what my French is like when everything's working correctly. (And you're both welcome to talk about it here in my log, as far as I'm concerned.) I'm beginning to suspect that being truly comfortable in a language with no warmup—especially at an "educated" level—is advanced skill.
Thank you for this long description of your C1 exam, and how you got into the groove before taking it. I always love reading about what people do to give their best performance.
Yes, it's important to remember that the self-assessment checklist assumes a certain amount of self-delusion on the part of the person filling it out, and that when I scored quite respectably on the DELF B2 (which is not the easiest B2 exam in the world), the checklist told me I wasn't quite B2. Similarly, I'm pretty sure I could pass the DALF C1 if I prepared for it. Here's what I'd do: 1. Plan to pick up as many points on reading comprehension as possible. 2. Write lots of synthèses for a while. I don't keep my formal writing 100% active, but I know how to fix it. 3. Work some more on listening comprehension. I can now enjoy at least some native movies in theaters (and most dubbed ones), but I could do better. 4. Immerse myself for a while before the exam, and hope for a good speaking day. But at this point, I'm far more likely to consider the TCF, which is capable of giving me a separate score in each skill. But it would represent a bunch of time and money.
Yeah, it's definitely possible to have a C1 certificate, and not have the level of comfort I'd like. I do know some non-native French speakers who can speak with the level of of comfort and ease I'd love to possess, but they tend to fall into three categories: 1. "Oh, I lived and worked in France for about 10 years." 2. "I teach French at University X." 3. "I'm an anglophone who has lived for a long time in Québec." ...and on a good day, I can hold up my end of a conversation with these groups, even if I'm not at their level. And I've had several conversations with French teachers where I've had to slow down, simplify my vocabulary, and explain things. That's always a bit weird.
I just can't find the enthusiasm for an exam right now. I have no practical need for another certificate, and I don't feel like the certificates focus on things that interest me. Maybe I'll sit the TCF at some point just to get a level assessment. Edited by emk on 17 June 2015 at 1:38pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5524 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 1276 of 1317 17 June 2015 at 2:27pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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In honor of the title change, I'd like to share some cool stuff in French.
Some favorite French songs
This is a mix of stuff I know well, stuff I've just discovered, and stuff that keeps me awake in the car. Some highlights: MC Solaar. This will come as no surprise to anybody who reads this log. :-) Old-school French rap. I use some of these as articulation exercises. It's usually well worth looking up his words. Renaud. Profoundly cynical, but very clever. Tastyonions just introduced me to him. Indochine. Classic 80s French rock. Jean-Jacques Goldman. More classics from the 80s. Stromae. A couple of recent hits. I'm still working through these albums, trying to decide which songs I like. Others. Other songs which caught my attention. If you're just starting to learn French, search for band name + song name + "paroles" on google.fr to get the French lyrics for a song. If you're studying French, and if you've ever described yourself as a "child of the 80s", please do check out my playlist. There's a fair bit of fun 80s rock there. :-) Edited by emk on 17 June 2015 at 2:54pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Ogrim Heptaglot Senior Member France Joined 4631 days ago 991 posts - 1896 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, French, Romansh, German, Italian Studies: Russian, Catalan, Latin, Greek, Romanian | Message 1277 of 1317 17 June 2015 at 2:42pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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The link to your playlist seems to be broken, it doesn't work for me.
Nice selection of music by the way. I consider the 80s to be the best decade as far as pop music is concerned, but that may be because that's the decade I was a young university student. I didn't discover J-J Goldman until the early 90s though, when I went to Paris for the first time and raided the big Virgin store on Champs Elysées (it closed down a couple of years ago, another victim of streaming and mp3 sales). I remember buying CDs by J-J Goldman, Patricia Kaas, Mylène Farmer, Indochine and Jean-Louis Aubert, and spent the summer playing French music all the time. Those were happy days! 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5524 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 1278 of 1317 17 June 2015 at 2:49pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
Should be fixed! And I'll definitely check out your other recommendations. I always like some good classic 80s music, and anything with catchy and clever lyrics. For those of us in the US, everything on my playlist can be bought through the US iTunes store with a search and a couple of clicks. Music seems to be one of the easy kinds of French media to buy digitally in the US; you probably don't even need to get out of your chair. :-) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Expugnator Hexaglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5158 days ago 3335 posts - 4349 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian | Message 1279 of 1317 17 June 2015 at 3:18pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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'Cool' title! I'm sure you are going to have a lot of fun from now on, emk. Now you can even write a book called 'How to stop wandering and start living' for helping people learn to enjoy their studies more.
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| 1e4e6 Octoglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4282 days ago 1013 posts - 1588 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan | Message 1280 of 1317 17 June 2015 at 11:52pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
I always wondered about this, and I expect higher from C levels. One reason that I am untli now hesitant to try to sit the DELE C2 is because the image of a C2 who can pass comfortably is like this: When I watch any RTVE news programme, I imagine a non-native speaker who can take their place and do the same job at the same level as a native, as well as someone whom you meet at random and you can swear that you thought that they were a native born in the target language country, and a candidate who can write either a novel or a dissertation with very minimal grammatical errores, if at all. In terms of speaking, you can ask them literally anything from any subject, be it science, philosophy, or even going to a nightclub and they can respond in an idiomatic and completely grammatically correct manner at native speed and accent. By extension I would expect them to be able to do this whilst drunk, upon waking up, or whilst multitasking, because it should be second-nature. Perhaps this is too demanding, but this is my mental picture of what C2 looks like. I had to a few times overview a few texts written by non-native Anglophone colleagues with the required language certificate level, and was shocked by what I saw. Even with spell check on Microsoft word, the amount of spelling, grammatical, and idiomatic errors numbered close to 40 each page. However, it is true, I have met a few non-native Anglophones who have the C1-C2 level or at least, a high IELTS score, but if they write or speak, it is downright terrible, and in some cases, I feel that if you spoke to them at a slow-machine like one word- per 2 seconds speed, they still have problems understanding. I had to write down on paper what I was saying to some non-native speakers a few times, and sometimes that also did not work because they could understand well the written register either. I am not sure if they just studied like hell and then forgot everything, but I wonder if other languages are like this. I always thought that with DELE and DALF you have to know your material so well that, as I said before, you can be drunk or just wake up and be able to function at all of the C-level requisites. Edited by 1e4e6 on 18 June 2015 at 12:02am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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