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The Awesome Difficulty of Korean, Finnish | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Evita Tetraglot Senior Member Latvia learnlatvian.info Joined 6544 days ago 734 posts - 1036 votes  Speaks: Latvian*, English, German, Russian Studies: Korean, Finnish | Message 233 of 559 25 October 2012 at 10:59am | IP Logged | |||||
Yes! I knew I was forgetting something. That word is in my Anki too. TTMIK introduced it back in level one but haven't used it much since then so I still mix it up. I also forgot to include 복잡하다 (to be crowded) in the second group. This doesn't seem like a very common word but SNU unit 8 introduced it.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Check out the PDF for TTMIK lesson 4x08. They even give these examples: Ex) 지금 인터넷 돼요? (Does the Internet work now?) Ex) 배달 돼요? (Can you deliver it?) So clearly this meaning is very common. -------------------------------- I've finished all my Korean Anki reviews for two days in a row now. That hadn't happened in a while. I've noticed that my reviewing speed for Korean cards has gone way up. I estimate it has increased by 40% compared to 3-4 months ago. Yesterday 93 reviews took me only 23 minutes. I think it's because I can read faster, type quicker, and in general I can remember Korean words better. I've also been adding quite a few new words to Anki, many of them from SS. My total card count is 1240 now. One thing I've been doing for a couple of weeks now to reduce the daily review count is press "3" more often instead of "2", especially for recognition cards. For production cards, I still mostly press "2". SNU unit 9 introduces how to say where you're from. The question "Where did you come from?" sounds so funny when translated directly to English. It also introduces the -지만 ending. TTMIK never did that, they only introduced 그렇지만 as a conjunction. This shows again why TTMIK, while a great resource, shouldn't be used as the only resource. Speaking of TTMIK, I've reviewed quite a few of their level 2 lessons lately but I've started to skip over their "sample sentences by our friends" sections. I still think it was a bad idea and I'm so glad they stopped doing that after a while. I'm not sure I would have kept doing their lessons otherwise. As for SS, I'm in episode 7 already. I'm a bit surprised that I've even abandoned my American TV shows to watch this one. It reminds me of You're Beautiful a lot - not just because both heroines are pretending to be boys but because they both speak in the formal manner, and they even look a bit similar. Here's the poster for SS. Just in case you haven't seen it.  Edited by Evita on 27 October 2012 at 10:50am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5527 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 234 of 559 25 October 2012 at 12:44pm | IP Logged | |||||
It can also mean "to be complex, be complicated" but the most common usage I've seen is noting that "the streets are crowded" (when describing heavy traffic).
That's one of the things that annoyed me somewhat about Pimsleur. Rather than introduce "V+고 = V and" or "V+지만 = V but" they chose to go with "하고 = and" and "하지만 = but" instead. However given the format and the vocab count of something like Pimsleur I can let that slide somewhat. At least it gets the concept in your head then you can learn the details later. I would have expected TTMIK to have explained "V+지만" fairly early on, though. (I already had a really good grounding in basic grammar when I started using TTMIK, so I've mostly used the 이야기 podcasts and transcripts rather than the actual lessons. I need to go back and just charge through the lessons and pick up anything I've missed, though, since I think they do cover a few concepts that I don't quite have down well yet.) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Evita Tetraglot Senior Member Latvia learnlatvian.info Joined 6544 days ago 734 posts - 1036 votes Speaks: Latvian*, English, German, Russian Studies: Korean, Finnish | Message 235 of 559 26 October 2012 at 10:09am | IP Logged | |||||
What they did was this: 2x03 - 그리고, 그래서 2x04 - 하고, (이)랑 2x06 - 그렇지만, 그런데 .. 3x02 - Linking verbs with -고 3x07 - Linking verbs / -아/어/여서 I like this approach in general because these endings were a difficult concept for me to swallow even in level 3. I suspect they simply forgot about the -지만 ending, and it's not the only thing they've forgotten. They never introduced how to say -이에요 in the past or in the future, they just started using these forms as if we should already know them. Also, they don't have a lesson on plural. Yesterday I did lesson 4x10 about how to say "among, between" and when they said among friends they used the plural particle but they didn't comment on it, didn't even mention it although it was only the first or second time they ever used it. So yeah, sometimes the TTMIK teachers assume too much knowledge on the part of their listeners. Another prime example - they introduce themselves in Korean in each lesson but they never talked about how to do that in the lessons. It's baffling sometimes. And in lesson 3x29 which was about ㅅ irregular verbs, they talked about how the ㅅ is pronounced at the end of a syllable. I mean - that should have been covered in level 1, not at the end of level 3. I can't imagine any serious Korean student doing all their lessons up to that point and not being aware of how the pronunciation changes in the final position. So I repeat - the TTMIK lessons are great but they will leave some small gaps in your knowledge if you don't use a proper textbook as well.
You can safely skip level 1 and most of level 2. Some level 2 lessons are quite interesting but they might still be too boring for you. I think level 3 is where they really hit their stride. Level 4 is even better in that they don't repeat the verb stems ad nauseum. I can't comment on levels 5 and above but you're sure to encounter more useful stuff the higher you go. Be sure to check out 3x27 Politeness Levels, I think a lot of stuff they talked about isn't in any books. ------------------------- It's Friday morning (and the weather outside is horrendous, a strong storm with snow and hail, first snow this autumn) and it's been a very Korean-heavy week so far, mostly because I've had time to study during work. Next week I have some other plans so I will definitely slow down. I kept working on SNU unit 9 yesterday. I've mentioned before that they have various kinds of exercises in each unit and I appreciate that. I think my most favorite exercise is the one where I have to listen to a question (it's not written down anywhere) and then I have to pick the appropriate answer from 3 different written answers. It trains both my listening and reading comprehension skills, and usually I do well with these exercises because I've been focusing on listening comprehension a lot. But unit 9 contains months and dates and I have enormous trouble recognizing them because I haven't practiced them at all. It's such a dull subject though that I think I will leave it for later. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Evita Tetraglot Senior Member Latvia learnlatvian.info Joined 6544 days ago 734 posts - 1036 votes Speaks: Latvian*, English, German, Russian Studies: Korean, Finnish | Message 236 of 559 27 October 2012 at 9:22am | IP Logged | |||||
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Yesterday I felt the effects of too much active Korean studying, I was tired of it so I mostly just repeated TTMIK lessons and watched SS. I repeated lessons 2x11 (self-introduction), 2x15 (-만), 4x01 (-을수록), 4x09 (you shouldn't). As I said before, I don't review lessons according to a plan, I just repeat what catches my eye. It's encouraging to realize that I can understand the example sentences from level 2 pretty comfortably now, I don't have to concentrate hard like I did before.
Lesson 4x09 contrasted two endings - 열면 and 열어도, and it made me think about why some endings require the 아/어 in the middle and some don't. Is there some kind of a general rule regarding this? In SS, they finished the archery competition and now they're in the middle of the thief drama. I take back what I said about the head student not being evil, he's totally as evil as I expected. I would discuss the episodes more but I don't remember the character names. I have big trouble remembering any Korean names, be it real or made-up. The fact that various websites and subtitle providers romanize them differently doesn't help, and neither does the fact that I never see their Korean versions. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5527 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 237 of 559 27 October 2012 at 9:24pm | IP Logged | |||||
One thing I desperately wish I had done from the start is learn the 어 as part of the ending (which is a method that many sources use anyway). Instead, I was confused by how many sources would use V+... without stating which form that verb was in. So instead I opted to learn the various endings as VST+... (verb stem) or VCF+... (verb conjugated form). However, later I finally realized that most of those sources that used V+... were only referring to the verb stem anyway and included 어 at the front of the ending when you should conjugate the form first. The reason I wish I had learned it that way, is because I would have learned 어 as part of the ending, which means I wouldn't have to try to remember which type of verb form to use. In other words, rather than trying to remember that 도 attaches to conjugated verbs, I would have learned the ending as "어도" instead which would answer the question on its own. Since I didn't do that, what I usually have to do instead is try to recall an example of a sentence or phrase using that ending with a verb that changes form in 반말. I normally use something like 하다 or 쓰다 where the shift is audibly obvious, but as long as you don't pick something like 가다 where the verb stem is the same as the 반말 form, it will work.
The more names you learn, the easier this will be, since many Korean given names are very common and thus will start to repeat frequently. However, as you noted, learning the romanized form is *not* the way to go about it. Vowels like "u" in particular are tricky since that gets used for both 우 and 어 (and in rare cases 으) depending on the romanization system (which doesn't always stay consistent even with the same translator). In one name the syllable "Sun" may represent 순 and in the next it suddenly stands for 선 instead. The vowel 여 in particular has a host of romanizations that are "common" for names (yeo, yu, yuh, you (mostly for "영/young"), etc.) two of which (yu and you) are sometimes used for 유 as well. Fortunately the bulk of the shows I watch are variety shows, so the names appear on-screen in 한글 form (even in translated material) for reference. With dramas and sitcoms, though, I guess you don't really have that reference available. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Evita Tetraglot Senior Member Latvia learnlatvian.info Joined 6544 days ago 734 posts - 1036 votes Speaks: Latvian*, English, German, Russian Studies: Korean, Finnish | Message 238 of 559 28 October 2012 at 12:46pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Well, I have finished Sungkyunkwan Scandal. Yesterday was Saturday so I had more time to watch it so I just let myself get sucked into it. I hadn't done that with a Korean drama since Coffee Prince and I'm glad I finally found another drama I enjoyed almost as much as that one. I was beginning to fear that CF had been a unique case and that no other drama would hold my attention that well. Glad to be proven wrong.
I'm not going to analyze the plot. As unbelievable as it was, it didn't stop me from enjoying the drama. The key to that, I think, were the distinct but likeable main characters. I looked up the cute guy 송중기 on the internet (I have decided to start learning the actors' names one by one) and I saw he's in the Nice Guy that everyone keeps praising. I'll definitely watch it after it has finished airing. Watching this drama also made me realize that I need to read up on Korean history. My interest in the Korean culture is still new so I haven't done that yet. I also lamented my lack of knowledge about the Chinese characters because they were used quite heavily in the drama. Maybe I'll have to attack them someday after all. We'll see. Can you guess how much language studying I did yesterday? You probably can. I have 175 Korean and 140 Finnish words to review in Anki today. I doubt I'll do them all. My Finnish pile has been growing for a while, I just review 20-30 words a day because I feel guilty if I don't review any at all. Speaking of Anki, I'm glad I didn't grab the new version yet. In a new major version, there are always some things that need to be ironed out after the first release and this was no exception. So a new version called Anki 2.0.2 has been just released and you can check out the changes here. As you see, there are quite many of them so it's worth upgrading. Still, I'll probably wait until the new AnkiDroid is ready. I finished watching the last few episodes of SS today and now I have a SS hungover so to speak. Not sure what I'll do for the rest of today. Perhaps some errands, perhaps some TTMIK. Hopefully some Anki. Probably not Finnish. Edit: I just looked at my K-drama recommendations file that I had compiled from what you guys posted here in this log and from what I had found elsewhere on the internet. I had forgotten I had this file and I hadn't looked at it for weeks (or months). Imagine my surprise when I saw this quote from druckfehler: "If you want to try a historical one, I recommend Sunkyunkwan Scandal, which is also extremely addictive." Haha, that was so true. It seems like our tastes are really similar. I had seen Rooftop Prince mentioned here and there (on DramaBeans) but I hadn't looked into what it was all about. Time travel! That's right up my alley. I'm downloading this drama at this very moment. Edited by Evita on 28 October 2012 at 2:00pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5527 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 239 of 559 28 October 2012 at 2:50pm | IP Logged | |||||
The first place I recall seeing 송중기 was on KBS Music Bank a few years back when he was one of the MCs of that show. He was also one of the regulars on the early episodes of Running Man (from episode 7 to 41 according to the episode guide I have for that show). 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| druckfehler Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4860 days ago 1181 posts - 1912 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Korean Studies: Persian | Message 240 of 559 28 October 2012 at 4:11pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Besides looking adorable, 송중기 is a pretty good actor. Also very worth watching is his movie 티끌모아 로맨스 (translated as Penny-Pinching Romance or Many a Little Romance), although I'm not sure whether it's available with subtitles.
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