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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5532 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes  Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 33 of 76 25 December 2013 at 3:07am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Yeah, I was thinking 50 x 90 mins, but I got confused somewhere along the way. :-) If we did 2,500 pages and 75 hours, that would double the amount of listening compared to the original Super Challenge, which seems pretty reasonable to me. A season of a television series is typically between 10 and 15 hours long, and most people seem to see big improvements within their first few seasons. So 50 hours would be about 4 seasons, and 75 hours would be about 6 seasons. What do people think? That first SC 1☆ would still be a lot of work under a system like this. The first 2,500 pages are the hardest part of the Challenge. But the nice thing about 2,500 pages and 75 hours of watching is that (a) it's large enough to see major improvements, but (b) it's small enough that polyglots can still try to earn one star each in 6 different languages. :-) Anyway, I'm just throwing out some half-baked ideas, in hopes that something will be useful to the Super Challenge organizers. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6597 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 34 of 76 25 December 2013 at 3:40am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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And what do you think of the idea of just making all your reading count, if you prefer? As I said, I hate having to choose between what counts and what's better for my studies. I'm going to read a small amount of Spanish for example, and an even smaller amount of Romanian. I can totally make them count by signing up with them and being waaay too far from the official goal, but why not just let them count? Maybe a miscellaneous category for all languages in which you don't plan to read all that much?
I mean I don't think especially reading is such a big problem for wanderlusters? Wanderlust normally happens due to an addiction to the beginner stage where progress is so swift... and if someone is wanderlustful (?) enough to start reading in a new language, surely it's not a bad thing? Also, what do you think about B1- vs B2+ ie regular vs advanced challenge? As I said, the difficulty thing was just an attempt to get it out of the way. Any other solutions if we even need one? Edited by Serpent on 25 December 2013 at 3:46am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5532 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 35 of 76 25 December 2013 at 4:29am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Since I'm not a polyglot, any opinions I put forth on this subject would be totally uninformed. So I'll refrain from having any. :-) What do the folks with multiple Super Challenges think? Is it better to treat each language as separate goal, especially if we're looking at 2,500 page chunks? Or should we just lump everything together?
At this point, we have only three Advanced Super Challenge people who finished ahead of the regular Super Challenge people, and they read 146, 147 and 249 books, respectively. That would be 5☆, 5☆ and 9☆ respectively, which is still small enough that we could just go ahead and lump them in with everybody else if we wanted. The 10,000-page Super Challenge is about 2.5 million words, and the Advanced Super Challenge is about 5 million words. To put this in perspective, lots of schools hold million word challenges for native students. So if we went with one system for everybody, most things would probably work out OK. But I might be overlooking a major drawback or two. For example, students who start at A2 would probably want to compare themselves to other students who start at A2, not to advanced students starting at C1. So even if we score everybody on the same system, so to speak, we might still want to have "divisions" or something like that. I don't know. My opinion holds no special weight here, and I reserve the right to change my mind the instant somebody suggests something better. :-) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| kanewai Triglot Senior Member United States justpaste.it/kanewai Joined 4889 days ago 1386 posts - 3054 votes Speaks: English*, French, Marshallese Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 36 of 76 25 December 2013 at 5:20am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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I really feel that each language should be a separate goal. The focus on one language,
and seeing the results you get, are a major part of what makes this challenge unique. Otherwise it just becomes an extra-long tadoku or 6WC. We could (well, surrealix could) add a column in the twitter bot for levels. That way, people who wanted to sort by level could. I've noticed a pretty wide range in how people self-assess - not just on HTLAL, but in the RL too - so it's not a factor I pay much attention to. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Emme Triglot Senior Member Italy Joined 5347 days ago 980 posts - 1594 votes Speaks: Italian*, English, German Studies: Russian, Swedish, French | Message 37 of 76 25 December 2013 at 1:16pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I personally prefer a longer challenge starting in May because I don’t like having too many projects that begin on January 1st. They sound too much like New Year’s resolutions, and we all know how these usually go. And as someone already mentioned, having a Challenge with a May start could be useful for the forum in general, as by late spring the level of activity is usually much lower and we may use something exciting to revive the community. Those are the reasons for my preference, but that doesn’t mean that I wouldn’t be interested in a Super Challenge running for twelve months to coincide with the calendar year.
I think that those infos make perfectly clear we should aim for quantity over quality. Moreover, I’m fairly convinced that while we may all start with binging on children’s easy novels, sooner or later most of us will want to graduate to more grown-up stuff. There’s no accounting for taste, but I can’t see myself or anyone else reading only easy books just to log higher numbers. But the fact that we are allowed to make all those books count whatever our starting point is, may be the determining factor in keeping us going until we feel ready to move on to more challenging or interesting materials. So I second emk’s proposed 2,500 pages and 50x90min listening and doing away with the levels. After all, in a challenge which stresses extensive reading I believe the gap in reading speeds between, for instance, lower intermediate and upper intermediate learners is bound to close soon (and I think Cavesa’s reflections quoted in post nr. 23 were going in this direction). And as kanewai repeated above, self-assessment is very subjective, so I think it should be de-emphasized; anyway, a column in the twitter bot for levels could still be there for those interested in making comparison between people who started more or less on the same level. And those were my 2 cents. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6597 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 38 of 76 25 December 2013 at 2:50pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
How about treating "misc" as a separate language, much like in the 6WC you can log your time as "multilingual"? It's up to you whether you sign up with this "language" or not. BTW, indicating your level was originally my idea too, but I thought listing the difficulty of the material was better, mostly because beginners get to label their stuff as difficult. With the level there's the issue that eventually it will hopefully change. kanewai, do you have books in all your languages? (as far as I remember there are some you can't even add here?) Note how pretty much all successful participants were learning a Romance language or German (or improving their English). Nobody should be forced to set themselves up for failure just because they want to log the little they do have. Reading even 100-500 pages is still an achievement. Edited by Serpent on 25 December 2013 at 2:52pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| geoffw Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4688 days ago 1134 posts - 1865 votes Speaks: English*, German, Yiddish Studies: Modern Hebrew, French, Dutch, Italian, Russian | Message 39 of 76 25 December 2013 at 5:26pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
As someone who was logging 4 languages (German was in my log only), I think I'm allowed to answer this. In my mind the point was indeed to achieve advancement in particular languages by reaching certain reading targets in those languages. So having a specific goal for each language was helpful. But what I did in practice was read whatever I wanted and cycle through languages in an attempt to balance them in a way I found acceptable. I ended up neglecting French in favor of Dutch, for example, and eventually gave up on Italian. I don't think that changing the scoring system would affect my approach significantly. I would still want to reach decently high numbers in as many of my languages as possible, and I still would do triage on the fly and focus more on one or two languages that seem to need it or that I just prefer to spend my time on. But I would have more of an incentive to not let one drop entirely just because I was too far away from my starting goal in it, because I still could chase stars by adding a couple hundred pages of a neglected language. So in sum, I don't have a strong opinion, and I think moving to a "log everything, sum everything, earn stars" system would be fine if it's desired. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4533 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 40 of 76 25 December 2013 at 6:28pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I agree that this is a good idea. Should we then just continue the SC rather than starting a new one? So those of us who have completed the first SC would have four stars and be working towards their fifth? 1 person has voted this message useful |
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