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TAC 2013 - Team Viking -TEAM THREAD | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5326 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes  Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 281 of 553 18 January 2013 at 9:14pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I do not see any boxes, but you are probably right about the commas. I do not really do commas, in any language, so unless you put it somewhere so wrong that even I notice it, I will probably let it pass. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| liddytime Pentaglot Senior Member United States mainlymagyar.wordpre Joined 6221 days ago 693 posts - 1328 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Galician Studies: Hungarian, Vietnamese, Modern Hebrew, Norwegian, Persian, Arabic (Written) | Message 282 of 553 18 January 2013 at 10:11pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Be strict! I love it!!! :-) So, I'm pretty sure that it is Nynorsk because of the articles that are used: "Ei bok, ei jente, ei uke, kona mi" etc... of course, I could be wrong. Ha det gøy i Egypt! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| daegga Tetraglot Senior Member Austria lang-8.com/553301 Joined 4513 days ago 1076 posts - 1792 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Swedish, Norwegian Studies: Danish, French, Finnish, Icelandic | Message 283 of 553 19 January 2013 at 12:38am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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These articles (feminine) are the same in Bokmål. You would rather see/hear the difference in the masculine and neutral articles: en/ein et/eit
I'm pretty sure they use Bokmål, not Nynorsk. You could easily check it in the reading booklet. If you find 'ikke', it's Bokmål, if you find 'ikkje', it's Nynorsk. It's a bit harder to spot for the other words because of the alternative forms. Edited by daegga on 19 January 2013 at 12:58am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5326 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 284 of 553 19 January 2013 at 7:12am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Like daegga says, these are forms that are perfectly possible in Bokmål. Even in the fairly conservative Bokmål that I speak I would use some of these - though perhaps not all of them. Ei jente would always be used in feminine. I do not know whether that is a trait shared by Swedish and Danish, but in Norwegian people can learn quite a lot about your political views, your education level and where you grew up or whether you are tired or angry or upset just from the amount of "a"s you use either because you use a lot of feminine noun endings or because you chose to use "a" at the end of the past tense of verbs. The good news for a foreign learner is that there are so many allowed forms that it is hard to go wrong, and that people will not make those sort of presumptions about you. You can write 1 " Jenta kastet boken i hodet på ham og dyttet bena hans bort i solen" ( The girl threw the book at his head and shoved his legs into the sun" Or 2. " Jenta kasta boka i huet på han og dytta beina hans bort i sola" Both sentences are equally possible and would not be corrected. You see that "jenta" is used in both sentences, as that is one of the very few words that are always used in feminine except if you speak the dialect of Bergen where no feminines exist. In the first sentence the verbs are "kastet" and "dyttet", and in the second sentence "kasta" and "dytta" are used. Both equally correct. In the first sentence we have " boken" and "solen", in the second "boka" and "sola" - again both equally correct. If you read the sentences carefully, you will have noticed that where I in the first sentence wrote "ham" (his/him depending on the context and translation) I have in the second sentence used " han" (he). Now although it pains me to say it, both are also considered correct in Norwegian. Jeg så ham. ( I saw him) Jeg så han. ( I saw "he" him) I would recommend that you learn and stick to the first one, but I will not correct it if you use the second one. Tha almighty Gods of the Norwegian language (Norsk Språkråd) decided that since so many people made that mistake it is now allowed to use it. In the last sentence I also wrote "huet" in stead of hodet. " Huet"is a colloquialism, and used mostly in the oral language, but very common. Whether your Norwegian teacher would correct that would again depend on his education, political views and mood, so if you want to be on the safe side, use "hodet". If you find all this confusing, try to stick to the fact that there are so many " right" ways of writing it, that it is hard to go wrong. When I told a friend of mine that I had offered to be the Godmother of this group he said: " Oh that must be an interesting task, because as soon as you have four Norwegians assembled, you will have four different opinions of what the correct usage is". That is partly true, which is why I try to present the different options. If you ask my advise on how many feminines to use I would say roughly 10-15 percent, so that you come across as educated but not overly conservative or bookish. You can however chose to use 100 % feminines or 0 % feminines. None of them would be wrong, but they would both sound a little bit weird. Personally I use about 2- 5 percent on a regular basis, but I come from a family where the correct usage of language was something which was discussed over dinner regularly, so I do not think it would be wise to ask you to speak the Norwegian I speak. I am a product of that family background pluss university education, plus being liguistically conservative and having grown up and now again living in a posh neighborhood. If you take 10-15 % you are fine. If you want to mark being more politically to the left you may increase your percentage (just keep in mind that in a Norwegian context both the Republican Party and the Democrat party would be considered right wing parties, so that the political affiliation you would then be indicating would be further left than that - socialist /communist- which obviously is fine - you just need to know what you a doing) . There is no social stigma connected to belonging to any political party - perhaps with the exception of the extreme right - but that is an entirely different story, and something which falls outside of the realm of linguistics :-) Edited by Solfrid Cristin on 20 January 2013 at 6:05pm 8 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Brun Ugle Diglot Senior Member Norway brunugle.wordpress.c Joined 6612 days ago 1292 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English*, NorwegianC1 Studies: Japanese, Esperanto, Spanish, Finnish | Message 285 of 553 19 January 2013 at 10:31am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Can you really use "han" as an object in written bokmål?! I always use it in speaking, but I didn't know it was allowed in writing. I use more feminine in speaking than writing, but it's more because the books I used to learn Norwegian were conservative, not because I am myself. I didn't know huet could be used either. And I thought that at least in spoken forms of the language that feminine forms of words and -a endings said more about where you come from than your political views.
I could really go wild with my writing now :) But I think it might be a bit late to teach old dogs new tricks. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5326 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 286 of 553 19 January 2013 at 11:07am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Sigh. I am afraid you can use it as an objective. I think for most people they have a wide register that differs from situation to situation. If I am tired or angry or ill my percentage of feminines increases - if I am at work or speaking with a little old lady from a posh background it decreases almost to 0. For Norwegians your percentage most definitely may say more about where you come from, and in some dialects it would sound funny or down right wrong with anything but a lot of feminines. However we are dealing with not only dialects but also sociolects. I grew up in an area which was sharply divided. Half of the population used mostly feminines and would say " bilær, båtær, trærna" and the other half would rather be caught dead than using any of those forms. It all depended on level of education and political views. For a foreigner who normally would not have a geographical area as a reference point we are therefore left with the political criterium. However, if any of you get a chance to learn a dialect by staying in an area of Norway where a particular dialect is used, I would say: Go for it! You'll really impress people, and it will make any little pronunciation mistakes much less noticeable. As for huet I would typically use it orally when I have a head ache (illness being one of the reasons for increased use of feminines) but like I said it is safer to write hodet. If you have the right teacher he would probably let it pass in writing too, but better safe than sorry. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5326 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 287 of 553 19 January 2013 at 8:55pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I do not often add Swedish texts here, but since I have an article I wrote about my garden, which has also
been translated and published in Sweden, I'll enclose it. If nothing else, you can enjoy the pictures of the pretty flowers :-) CRISTINA'S TULIPS 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6901 days ago 4250 posts - 5711 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 288 of 553 19 January 2013 at 11:23pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Maybe confusing, but very useful for all those who believe that the language police will arrest you if you use a different spelling for a certain word. :) 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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