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What is good enough? | ||
Tags: CEFR Language Levels | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5326 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes  Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 1 of 79 22 December 2012 at 10:10am | IP Logged |
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Like many of you I sense a smile on my face when I see a basically monolingual teen ager who is through the
first 10 lessons of a languages course, and who talk about quickly becoming a polyglot by getting to what is basically A2 in several languages. I smile, because to me A2 is just scratching the surface of a language, on the other hand who says I have all the answers? And it also differs from language to language how much I feel that I need to know. English I need to C2, because it is the language I function in outside the family sphere. Spanish I also need a C2 in, because Spanish is part of who I am. Speaking Spanish badly would freak me out. In French I am happy with a C1. I do not use it that often, and I get pretty good feed back whenever I do. Not that I would have said no to say a job in France or in Belgium which would have brought me to a C2 but for what I need it to I am fine. The extra work of getting to C2 is not really worth it, so maintenance and a slight revival is fine. In German I am a B1, and I would have liked to get to a solid B2. As it is now I speak it, but not with total ease, and I make lots of mistakes, particularly with the cases. The irony is of course that had I spoken Russian like I speak German I would have considered myself king of the world, and would have been over the moon, but since German is a language close to my own, and one well known by my countrymen, I feel the need to speak it more or less correctly, if not totally fluent. I do not need to be in the C range here either. If I were to need it for professional reasons, I would definitely aim for at least C1, but right now I only need it for "lunch talk" when at international meetings and for whenever I am in Germany, which is not very often. Italian, since I only have it as a "fun language" I am also satisfied with a B2 level. Unfortunately I am not there anymore, I have been sliding down the slope, so I need to get back to where I once was, but I do not need to be in the C range there either. Russian - I would have sold my soul to the devil to be C2 in Russian, unfortunately that is not an option, so I need to see what is realistic, and realistic in the short term (2013) is B1. I hope that at some time I could reach a B2, but I have a 10 year perspective on that one. Greek is again just for pleasure , so in the short term (2013) my goal would be a A2 ( immediate goal would be to learn the alphabet :-). In the long term I would like a B1, and then I would have to look at it again. As for dabbling languages, they remain dabbling languages precisely because I do not have any concrete goals for them, but for most languages I guess a B1 would be a natural goal, unless I intend to move there or use it professionally. So how about the rest of you. Do you need to be a C2 to be satisfied, is it enough with an A2 or does it, like in my case, depend on the language? Edited by Solfrid Cristin on 22 December 2012 at 10:13am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4699 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 2 of 79 22 December 2012 at 10:17am | IP Logged |
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Good enough is good enough, whenever that is. To me I care less about the numbers and
more about the ease with which I do things. If it feels natural, without effort, it's good. Edited by tarvos on 22 December 2012 at 10:18am 6 persons have voted this message useful | |
| g-bod Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5974 days ago 1485 posts - 2002 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, German | Message 3 of 79 22 December 2012 at 11:09am | IP Logged |
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I think it must depend on language and circumstances. A2 is enough to function as a tourist, but at least with my experience of French, things got more interesting at B1.
Things also started to get more interesting at B1 in Japanese as I could actually start having proper conversations and start making the most out of native materials. I really want to push it up to B2 as I think that would mean I could do all the things I love doing in my favourite language, only better. I have no idea what it feels like to be in the mystical C range. I'm not sure I have what it takes to get my Japanese there, as it really is just a hobby language. But I guess if you needed a language for professional reasons, or study abroad, a C1 minimum would probably be essential. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| JeremyTaylorUK Triglot Newbie Czech Republic jeremytaylor.eu Joined 4353 days ago 2 posts - 7 votes Speaks: English*, German, French | Message 4 of 79 22 December 2012 at 11:56am | IP Logged |
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My general definition of 'good enough' is: "Could I spend an evening in a pub talking to
someone in that language without them feeling it was like a language class or for either of us struggling to understand the other?" Of course, alcohol enhances one's ability to speak foreign languages - or at least confidence in your own ability. 6 persons have voted this message useful | |
| hrhenry Octoglot Senior Member United States languagehopper.blogs Joined 5122 days ago 1871 posts - 3642 votes Speaks: English*, SpanishC2, ItalianC2, Norwegian, Catalan, Galician, Turkish, Portuguese Studies: Polish, Indonesian, Ojibwe | Message 5 of 79 22 December 2012 at 12:17pm | IP Logged |
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I won't get into what is "good enough", but I'll bring up "proving" myself, so to
speak. Turkish is the first language I've studied in a long time that I feel the need to accurately assess my level, meaning sit exams. There are other languages that I'm equally as passionate about, but have not felt the need to get proper assessment. And, in fact, testing hasn't even been available in some of the languages I speak, but it doesn't matter - I haven't felt the need in those other languages. I have no plans to ever work professionally with Turkish as I do with Spanish or Italian, but, for whatever reason, I have a desire to accurately "know" where I stand. I also am pretty sure I'll never get beyond a B2 level in Turkish without living for a significant period of time in Turkey. R. == 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4614 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 6 of 79 22 December 2012 at 12:46pm | IP Logged |
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Can something as complex as a language really be divided into just 6 levels? If you assembled a group of
people from one particular category there would be sub-levels present among them. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| druckfehler Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4860 days ago 1181 posts - 1912 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Korean Studies: Persian | Message 7 of 79 22 December 2012 at 1:03pm | IP Logged |
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Once I've put in the initial work and can use native materials, why not try to take the language as far as I can go? At least in regard to passive skills I usually want to be so comfortable in my target languages that I don't ever feel like I need a dictionary. Active skills are more problematic. Even B2 is a challenge and I doubt that I'll be able to achieve anything better without spending some time in the country. Edited by druckfehler on 22 December 2012 at 1:03pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Leurre Bilingual Pentaglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5417 days ago 219 posts - 372 votes Speaks: French*, English*, Korean, Haitian Creole, SpanishC2 Studies: Japanese | Message 8 of 79 22 December 2012 at 1:35pm | IP Logged |
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Sometimes I have these daydreaming periods where I learn 10 or 11 languages in X amount
of years, and I get really good at them and live happily ever after. I know that will never happen because 'good enough' for me is native level. No exceptions. I really realized this with my Korean; I test at the equivalent of C2 (4 in ILR) but I've never been studying harder, and every unknown word expression or cultural reference, every slip of the tongue, mispronunciation, and every slightly less than natural sentence feels like a slap in the face. Same goes with Spanish; I can't move on to another language until I get really good in spanish. Japanese is the same... Unreachable goal, perhaps. Perpetual disappointment because it's unreachable? No way. Every now and then I'll stop and do some great self backslapping. This forum is great for that. But it just means I move through languages like a glacier through a valley. Edited by Leurre on 22 December 2012 at 1:38pm 5 persons have voted this message useful |
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