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What is good enough? | ||
Tags: CEFR Language Levels | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4614 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes  Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 41 of 79 31 December 2012 at 5:26pm | IP Logged | ||
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Do the upper levels permit you to have holes in your vocabulary? It is possible to speak a language well but
to find certain situations difficult, eg discussing sport or problems with your car if these are subjects you don't normally deal with. Your "technical" vocabulary might be lacking. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5422 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 42 of 79 31 December 2012 at 7:04pm | IP Logged | ||
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Reaching high level of proficiency do not necessarily mean having a huge vocabulary even though vocabulary size correlates with proficiency. It's really about how you use the language. It's really more a question of the ability to make subtle distinctions and use more complex grammatical structures.
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| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6589 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 43 of 79 31 December 2012 at 7:32pm | IP Logged | ||
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Depends on whether we're talking about active or passive vocab. You can use workarounds successfully even at a high level but you should still have a decent passive understanding of the language.
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| maydayayday Pentaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5211 days ago 564 posts - 839 votes Speaks: English*, German, Italian, SpanishB2, FrenchB2 Studies: Arabic (Egyptian), Russian, Swedish, Turkish, Polish, Persian, Vietnamese Studies: Urdu | Message 44 of 79 31 December 2012 at 7:37pm | IP Logged | ||
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No matter what level you will always have holes in your vocabulary and wil have to work out what is going on without knowing every word. I've met English words on this very site of which I didn't even have a passive knowledge.
I still can't discuss sports in my own language! Edited by maydayayday on 31 December 2012 at 7:40pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5422 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 45 of 79 31 December 2012 at 9:18pm | IP Logged | ||
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Of course, we all have holes in our vocabulary and yes you need a decent passive vocabulary. But what really distinguishes a C2 from a C1 and from a B2? It's the ability to handle a wider range of situations and to be able to slice and dice meaning and usage in more ways. One of the key indicators of this is the use of idioms and metaphors that really kick in at the c1/c2 levels.
For example, you may not know a lot of the technical vocabulary related to climate change (e.g. CO2 sequester) but you can still talk coherently about the subject in general terms. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| petteri Triglot Senior Member Finland Joined 4924 days ago 117 posts - 208 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English, Swedish Studies: German, Spanish | Message 46 of 79 01 January 2013 at 2:00pm | IP Logged | ||
Let's see. B2 can handle familiar situations, but other subjects mean trouble. C1 can handle most situations, but can have some serious vocabulary gaps. C2 does not have major vocabulary holes in general areas. When it comes to bit more peculiar fields, most natives have gaps as well. The situation there an expert has strong English vocabulary in some special fields and lacks native terminology is not uncommon either. Edited by petteri on 01 January 2013 at 2:17pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6901 days ago 4250 posts - 5711 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 47 of 79 01 January 2013 at 3:32pm | IP Logged | ||
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The CEFR scale is good in the general sense. Then we have individuals with higher (or lower) requirements. We've all heard people claiming fluency when the actual level was a bit lower (in fact, where most others would not claim fluency). We've also heard people say that "you aren't fluent unless you can... [discuss politics/sports/nuclear physics/the inner thoughts of the Nobel Prize laureates]". Wasn't there someone on this forum who wouldn't even state knowledge in a language unless s/he had a certificate in it?
"Good enough" for me is different for all languages, but I don't expect to have skills in another language which I don't have in Swedish. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6589 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 48 of 79 01 January 2013 at 3:47pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think the person said he wouldn't state a level unless he has a certificate for that level. Which makes sense if you are new to CEFR and not 100% sure about your self-evaluation.
What's more shocking for me is that someone else said they won't claim fluency if they haven't had any formal classes. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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