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TAC 2014, tabidachi 旅立ち - dampingwire | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| dampingwire Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4668 days ago 1185 posts - 1513 votes  Speaks: English*, Italian*, French Studies: Japanese | Message 41 of 118 12 February 2014 at 12:18pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Currently it's mostly with subtitles. I know that AJATT strongly suggests that by doing so I'm wimping out and failing to make myself learn more rapidly through a burning desire to understand. However, when I have tried to watch a segment without subtitles, I've found (unsurprisingly) that I'm just not following enough of the plot to know what's going on. With the subtitles as a hint I can often work out what was said in a given sentence. Admittedly I then miss the next sentence or two, but because the subtitles are there I can still follow the plot. Hopefully, as time moves on, I'll be able to ditch the subtitles. I'll need to block them on the screen though as all the series I've watched through godddrama.net seem to have hard subs. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| g-bod Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5985 days ago 1485 posts - 2002 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, German | Message 42 of 118 12 February 2014 at 2:15pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Some electrical tape across your monitor will do the trick!
You definitely need to cross over into the subtitles free zone - that way you don't have to choose between TV or real study! I would suggest to start with either rewatching something you already know, or picking a show that other learners consider to be relatively "easy". I was able to switch off the subs for good once I'd reached N3 level. While you're still relying on subs, Tiger and Dragon is a must watch! It's still too hard for me to follow without subs, but I think it's one of the best! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Hasi Diglot Senior Member Austria Joined 6119 days ago 120 posts - 133 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: Japanese | Message 43 of 118 12 February 2014 at 3:18pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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I assume when you say subs you mean English subs? Have you tried watching with Japanese ones?
A few months ago I made the switch to watching things with Japanese subs and even now I watch more "difficult" dramas with Japanese ones. The easier ones I can (mostly) understand without subs. (as in: I can follow the plot and generally understand what they are talking about but there are smaller sections that I don't understand at all.) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| dampingwire Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4668 days ago 1185 posts - 1513 votes Speaks: English*, Italian*, French Studies: Japanese | Message 44 of 118 15 February 2014 at 12:27am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
I think I'll use a cardboard shape and some blue tac - it's not a great monitor but I don't think that tape residue will do much to improve it :-)
I don't know how near N3 I am ... I'll know soon though I guess!
I've checked and it's on the streaming sites, so I'll give that one a watch once I finish the current one. Rather than re-watching the ones I've already seen, I'll pick one or two series where only one or two episodes have been uploaded and then watch them once with subtitles and once without. Or maybe the other way would be better: that way I see if I can follow without a crutch and afterwards see what I missed.
I am indeed using English subs. The streaming sites that I've used have hard subs, so they're there whether I want them or not. (Hence the cardboard comment above). I could download episodes directly to my disk and then find subs but that takes more time. In addition, I'm not sure that I'd be able to read Japanese quickly enough follow the speech. Maybe when I can understand the speech, that might be the time to try Japanese subs, but to improve my reading rather than my listening. I know I've found with intensive listening of lessons that I can follow the transcript more quickly if I'm simultaneously listening to the dialogue. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Woodsei Bilingual Diglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member United States justpaste.it/Woodsei Joined 4800 days ago 614 posts - 782 votes Speaks: English*, Arabic (Egyptian)* Studies: Russian, Japanese, Hungarian | Message 45 of 118 17 February 2014 at 10:54pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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I did a similar thing to what you suggested you'd do, dampingwire. I found that on
streaming sites, drama and and anime are released as raws first, then get subbed a few hours later. That's how I started making myself watch the episodes without English subs initially. Since I had no English translation to recourse to, I had to really focus to pick out the general meaning of the plot. I'd also re-watch the episodes multiple times while they were still raw, and every time I did, I was picking up more of the meaning. Some people don't like to re-watch things, but if it's a show I'm genuinely interested in, it's usually a lot of fun, and not much of a problem. Later, when the shows get subbed, I usually just glance quickly at them to check if my understanding was correct without them, and usually it wa. Plus lots of the words I was puzzling over were clarified after checking the English. That's basically how I "weaned" myself off subtitles. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| dampingwire Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4668 days ago 1185 posts - 1513 votes Speaks: English*, Italian*, French Studies: Japanese | Message 46 of 118 19 February 2014 at 12:03am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Well I've just finished モンスターペアレント. I'll start on Tiger and Dragon with subs, but
I'll also pick something else (with only an episode or two) and try that without subs and then with subs. That way it won't feel that it's taking too long to get through something. I'll also not feel too back about watching it repeatedly or rewinding when I've missed a bit. We'll see how it goes :-) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| dampingwire Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4668 days ago 1185 posts - 1513 votes Speaks: English*, Italian*, French Studies: Japanese | Message 47 of 118 21 February 2014 at 4:43pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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I tried a bit of cardboard to block out subtitles but it was a bit irritating: the
paper kept moving. In the end I found a better way. I run the video in chrome in full screen mode as usual. Since I'm running in a virtual machine, I release focus and that gets me back to the host machine. I fire up an editor window, size and place it appropriately and, bingo, I can block subtitles without leaving nasty marks on my monitor. Yay. I've started タイガー＆ドラゴン and it is indeed very hard without subtitles. So I've also started a couple of series of anime. リストランテパラディーゾ has short ~20m episodes and doesn't involve super-powers or parallel dimensions (well, not yet!), and the odd bits of Italian (it's set in Rome) are nice too. I tried the first episode without subs and then with, just to make sure I knew the background. I'm going to watch the rest of it without subs (until I get really stuck I guess). Edited by dampingwire on 21 February 2014 at 4:53pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| dampingwire Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4668 days ago 1185 posts - 1513 votes Speaks: English*, Italian*, French Studies: Japanese | Message 48 of 118 07 March 2014 at 12:48am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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A little late, but this is how I managed with my February goals.
Main Goals: 1. Continue listening to dialogue tracks. Done. I've currently switched to listening to Upper Intermediate lessons just so I don't get bored with a repeating cycle of LI dialogues. As these lessons are about 70% Japanese they are almost all "dialogue" anyway. 2. RTK: I'll continue to keep this up to date. Done. 3. Anki: Kanji. I still have about 1300 kanji words to learn to complete the N3 vocabulary. I want to sit JLPT N3 in the summer so I still need to learn about 300/month. I'll set this month's target as 400 as it's a nice round number of 100/week and see how it goes. I'll try adding new kanji at 20/day or so and slow down when the reviews start to take more than about 20 mins per day. I added 475 kanji words in February. 4. Anki: Vocabulary. I'm merely going to maintain this. I probably don't need N2 vocabulary this summer and I don't want this deck to interfere with the time I need to spend elsewhere. I have maintained this deck but I've also begun to add vocabulary from みんなの日本語中級. 5. 新完全マスター N3 文法: I'm going to aim to cover 5 "chapters" per week. If I do a review lesson I'll count that as a chapter too: basically a chapter (at least at this stage of the book) is always two pages long. I managed 17 "chapters", which is 3 short of my target. However, I also covered roughly 5 hours of grammar work on みんなの日本語中級. If I count this as part of the overall grammar work (which I would have done if I'd remembered it at the beginning of the month!) then I would have included it and I would have easily met the target. 6. I'm going to watch at least 3 drama episodes or two films per week. I went a bit mad in the first week and in fact easily met this goal just in that week :-) I've slowed down a bit since then. I'm now watching without subtitles, except for one series that I'm finishing off with subtitles. I do watch again with subtitles so I can check on my understanding. I'm experimenting with watching first without subtitles and then with and vice-versa. Optional Goals: 7. I've started the 新完全マスター N3 聴解 book again from the start. This time I'm going to work through every piece of Japanese in there, whether it's instructions explanations or script. That makes it difficult to track by page or section, since it will vary so much, so I'll set a target or 2 hours of such work per week. I didn't do any 新完全マスター N3 聴解 work in the first two weeks but I did SRS all the vocabulary in the second two weeks. 8. I'm going to work through at least two NHK News articles each week. In addition, I'll go back to trying one NHK Easy News article each day that I don't read a full article. I met this goal in the first week and easily exceeded it every other week. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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