PMs TAC 2015 crazy? French course mission (Language Learning Log) Language Learning Forum

PMs TAC 2015 crazy? French course mission
Tags: TellMeMore \| Fluenz \| Linguaphone \| Flash cards \| Michel Thomas \| Self-Study \| Spaced Repetition (SRS) \| Diploma/Certificate \| Study Plan \| Fluency \| Dutch \| Pimsleur \| FSI \| Total Annihilation Challenge (TAC) \| Assimil \| French
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PeterMollenburg
Senior Member
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Speaks: English*
Studies: French^B1

Message 417 of 451

16 June 2015 at 10:45am | IP Logged

Okay, so replying to my own post. I'm going to try this for a little while:

* Duplicate old deck and during reviews delete like mad anything that I have half an
idea of it's meaning.

* Create a new deck with an aim not to enter every word

-----------
* In the new deck (already experimented) the entering of information when creating a
card will proceed as follows:

Side 1 - French word
eg "à peine"

Side 2 - English word or words (includes subtle variations to provide clarity)
eg hardly, barely, scarcely

Side 3 - French example with the key word/phrase missing
eg. J'arrive ______ à soulever mon sac

Side 4 - English translation of the French example
eg. I can "hardly" lift my bag

Side 5 - word/phrase clasification
eg. loc adv (ie locution adverbiale)
---------------------
How the reviews will go won't be in the same order as above but like this:

Direction 1:

Side 1:
J'arrive ______ à soulever mon sac (side 3 when card was created)
I can [hardly] lift my bag (side 4 when card was created)

ie i'm able to make it so two card sides (or more) can be viewed when reviewing cards
on one side of my choice.

(type written answer expected giving me more practice with the language- which
corresponds to the original French 'side 1' from when card was created -see above- ie
in this case it is "à peine")

Side 2
= side 1 (top)
side 5 (middle)
side 2 (bottom)

So the the actual side 2 will look like this:
à peine
loc adv
hardly,
barely,
scarcely

*with all the nuances in meaning included plus an example, but only writing the French
term as my answer I avoid being concerned with requiring the English multiple
translations as the answer... I'm hoping this works out well. Sounds complicated but
entering is pretty simple really and a lot better than all of my examples and their
translations being entered often going back and forth between sides while entering and
then adding a French definition from yet another dictionary... Anyway fingers crossed

Direction 2 will be like this:
Side 1:
hardly,
barely,
scarcely (these are side 2 when card was created)
J'arrive ______ à soulever mon sac (side 3 when card created)

With an expected typed answer being the same as above "à peine". By sticking to the
same original French term from the original side 1 when the card was created as my
answer for both 'directions' or layouts of cards I avoid the issues with multiple
translations into English, and focus more on the French in two different ways
(directions/layouts whatever) but still see (not answer with) English translations.

So I answer and then the next side...

Side 2:
à peine (original side 1)
loc adv (original side 5)
I can [hardly] (or: "hardly"- not decided on that) lift my bag (original side 4)

Essentially I'll be typing short answers and reviewing/learning every card in two
different formats (that i've referred to as directions as it's usually used for L1-L2/
L2-L1).
------------------------------
In summary the first layout/direction is French example sentence with a missing word +
English example sentence with the translation of the missing highlighted somehow in
the English sentence. The answer will be the French term. Other details show up on
side 2

The second direction instead of the two sentences is the English translation plus any
nuances of meaning along with the French sentence with the gap. Again the answer is
the French term like above. Side 2 again has some other details slightly differing
from the above layout

Sounds like a lot of jargon, fluff or whatever- In short fingers crossed this
streamlines my FC process and that in creating a new deck I also become more efficient
in my choice of words/terms to enter.
1 person has voted this message useful

Jeffers
Senior Member
United Kingdom
Joined 4912 days ago
2151 posts - 3960 votes

Speaks: English*
Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German

Message 418 of 451

16 June 2015 at 11:40am | IP Logged

It seems like you've put a lot of thought into this. It looks good in theory, I hope it works well for you.
2 persons have voted this message useful

PeterMollenburg
Senior Member
AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5479 days ago
821 posts - 1273 votes

Speaks: English*
Studies: French^B1

Message 419 of 451

16 June 2015 at 12:28pm | IP Logged

Jeffers wrote:

It seems like you've put a lot of thought into this. It looks good in theory, I hope it works
well for you.

I couldn't agree more Jeffers- good in theory.... but/and? I'm hoping for 'and' not 'but'. Time will tell but I
certainly don't have rose-coloured glasses on
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luke
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 7208 days ago
3133 posts - 4351 votes

Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: Esperanto, French

Message 420 of 451

17 June 2015 at 2:03am | IP Logged

Yes, it's always interesting to see what you're up to Monsieur Le PM.

We often have a love/hate relationship with flashcards.

I'm trying for an "absence makes the heart grow fonder", or, better yet a new pair of glasses.
2 persons have voted this message useful

PeterMollenburg
Senior Member
AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5479 days ago
821 posts - 1273 votes

Speaks: English*
Studies: French^B1

Message 421 of 451

17 June 2015 at 2:52am | IP Logged

luke wrote:

Thanks luke. I like your approach, I just can't bring myself to do it despite
declaring some time ago that I would. However I'm attempting to leave my wheelchair
behind in favour of crutches while predominantly still listening to the very similar
audio cues while wandering the local French museum. At least I have something to
attack people with should any random person suddenly go crazy on me- I mean who knows
it happens all the time in the world- humans cannot be trusted. One can only hope I
actually venture out into the real French wolrd some day without crutches. Despite
that wheelchair being rather clunky and heavy/slow I'm still looking back at it from
the vantage point of my crutches (careful don't fall monsieur le PM) albeit with not
that much fondness.
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PeterMollenburg
Senior Member
AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5479 days ago
821 posts - 1273 votes

Speaks: English*
Studies: French^B1

Message 422 of 451

17 June 2015 at 4:41pm | IP Logged

As detailed in the 'Sick and tired of SRS Part 2' thread, after many political deliberations over my FCs and
messing about with FC deck options like a man possessed, I finally reached a highly simplified version for
input. It's based predominantly on emk's cloze cards. Thanks to emk, Iversen, chaotic_thought and garyb for
their indeed helpful posts. Here's the conclusion:

PeterMollenburg wrote:

After reading over the posts in this thread several times and going back to my FC
deck to fiddle with the
options/layouts and so on I became fed up with the whole thing and went back to my origingal deck... No, just
joking (as stubborn as I am though you probably thought it was true for a moment).

It finally sunk in what more than one person has been saying in this thread after re-reading- translation is
fraught with assorted issues/ why rely heavily or even mildly on English. So I simplified. Although I discovered
I could actually create far more than 2 "directions/layouts/versions" for drilling the same set of cards in more
combinations than you can poke a stick at... I cut back to 1 version/layout/direction.

eg
Front:
J'arrive à p____ à soulever mon sac.
(hardly)
expected typed response: à peine

or perhaps 2 sentences:
J'arrive à p____ à soulever mon sac.
(hardly)

Elle sait à p____ lire
(hardly, barely)

(same expected answer: à peine)

Back:
loc adv
(phonetics if req'd)
(I don't need to have the answer to sentence as when I type it on side 1/front I will get a correction then)

Even less English (sentence translation gone) and very little likelihood for ambiguous responses, half close
kept (good suggestion!) and the nuances of meaning gone- the English translations gone except for under
each corresponding sentence as emk does. I think this is simple as I can go for now without driving myself
insane. Ok finally, I think I actually have it now ;)

Thanks again peoples, peace up! Your insights, input and resourcefulness are highly valued, cheers :)

PM

Now with recent insights gained from smallwhite's deliberations on vocab acquisition in which I decided I was
lingering on cards far too long during reviews, and now a speedier process for card creation, all that's left is to
study (and not enter every new word!)

I need sleep!

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Mohave
Senior Member
United States
justpaste.it/Mohave1
Joined 4010 days ago
291 posts - 444 votes

Speaks: English*
Studies: French

Message 423 of 451

17 June 2015 at 6:31pm | IP Logged

Hmmmmm..... I may have to give your new and simplified method a try. Can you give some feedback after a
couple of days? Thanks much!
1 person has voted this message useful

PeterMollenburg
Senior Member
AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5479 days ago
821 posts - 1273 votes

Speaks: English*
Studies: French^B1

Message 424 of 451

18 June 2015 at 3:29am | IP Logged

Mohave wrote:

Hmmmmm..... I may have to give your new and simplified method a try.
Can you give some feedback after a
couple of days? Thanks much!

No probs, but I've made an adjustment. I've added English translations back in. What
follows is taken from the Sick and tired of srs part 2 thread (if you're following
that at all don't read on)

PeterMollenburg wrote:

hmmmm, another adjustment.

I realised that I don't always have example sentences, and I don't really want to have
to go looking for them all the time. That being said cloze cards are my default, but
in the off chance I'm learning isolated vocab without any cloze sentences due to not
being able to find them, not wanting to, just wanting to speed things along, or some
other reason...

Well what I did was this. As there is no 'if' clause i'm aware of in my FC deck, I had
to do a work around (i also added a number in the brackets to indicate if there is
more than one word to an answer). My change here btw will mean I do enter English
translations (not sentences tho).

Side 1 if I have cloze sentences goes like this
J'arrive à p___ à soulever mon sac
(hardly, 2)

Elle sait à p____ lire
(hardly, barely, 2)

TYPED ANSWER REQU'D : à peine

Obsucred behind the answer section are my English translations.... therefore, if I
have no cloze sentences the English is no longer obscurred and side 1 will appear like
this:
hardly,
scarcely,
barely

TYPED ANSWER REQU'D: à peine

Side 2
à peine
loc adv

It means I need to ensure I have a min of 5 lines of text (max of 6) in my example
sentence section, so if I only have one example I just need to hit enter a few times
to create that gap that pushes the English text down behind where I'm meant to type.

In actual fact I think this will just streamline things. English translations are
there but NOT needed UNLESS I have no cloze sentences in which case they will be my
prompts.

EDIT:
Maybe I should have either/or, not both. I could treat my cloze field as my clue field
and put in there whatever I like to arrive at the answer à peine- ie if I have good
cloze sentences use them, if not, just type in the English translations that avoids
all the BS with hiding things behind the answer section
word

Edit: I've applied the above edit... it's really straight forward now (my deck!)...
fingers crossed for the 17th time!

Edited by PeterMollenburg on 18 June 2015 at 3:48am

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