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PeterMollenburg
Senior Member
AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5479 days ago
821 posts - 1273 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: FrenchB1
| Message 425 of 451 19 June 2015 at 4:57am | IP Logged |
What follows is a duplicate entry from "Sick and tired of SRS part 2"
Edit: I advise you refer to that thread if you want to view emk's inserted image
below, for some reason it's not showing up here
PeterMollenburg wrote:
emk wrote:
Here's an example of a recognition card. When I
was reading Le
Déchronologue, I used my ebook reader's highlight feature to mark this sentence,
because it contained a weird use of essuyer "wipe". Here, it means something
more like "to suffer, to be subjected to". You can see me turning this sentence into a
card using my custom web app:
essuyer.png">
My workflow goes something like this:
1. Highlight sentences while I'm reading, making sure to include plenty of context.
2. Export the sentences from my ereader and upload them to a web app.
3. Look at each sentence, look up any unknown words, and copy and paste a definition
or a picture.
4. Import the finished sentences into Anki using a plugin.
This process is about 80% "study" time, actively thinking about the word and how it's
being used.
I do something similar with half-cloze and cloze cards, except the definition or hint
goes on the front side. (And yes, as soon as I get caught up on sleep and work, I'm
planning to move this software to a new server and open it to the HTLAL community as a
public beta. Several HTLAL users gave me a lot of awesome feedback last year, which
helped tremendously.)
Now, this card is also an interesting example, because it shows what I do about
strange, secondary meanings of words: I ignore them until a perfect sentence like this
falls into my lap, in which case I might go ahead a make a card. But until I actually
run into an example like this, I ignore nuances and secondary meanings ruthlessly.
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This is a very useful example. Thanks emk. I had a look to see if I could duplicate
this process using my SRS program. As you already know my FC SRS system is an app in
which I enter directly into my phone. I have a little 'box' of apps in the handy right
hand bottom corner of my phone in which I have French dictionaries, Linguee, twitter
(for the SC), Podcasts app, kindle reader, ibook reader and so on... I tried your copy
and paste method from my Kindle and ibooks app to my FC app. iBooks only allows me to
copy PDF material- ebooks don't allow for copying. Kindle does. I can copy a word,
phrase, sentence and paste it straight into FC Deluxe by closing the kindle app and
opening the FC Deluxe app. NO problemo. I can also copy and paste definitions either
from the Kindle dictionary when I go to the 'further details' section of a looked up
word, from my French dictionary app, or Le Robert French dictionary app, or Larousse
French English dictionary app. So all this copy and pasting is possible for me with
relative ease, except for books in iBooks, hopefully that changes otherwise I'll try
typing shorter sentences for such entries.
I also found the 'if clause' in my FC app. Basically I discovered you can have
multiple types of flashcards which can exist within the same deck. Eg I can be
tested by typing an answer with all cards from type A, Just view definitions or
context with all cards of type B and as an example do multiple choice, or hear the
audio or whatever in type C.
This allows me now to create three cateogories of cards like yourself emk. It just
means I tap twice when creating a card- once on the 'category' section of the card,
then again on which category (from my preselected created list) I allocate the card to
(so that when I review cards it is presented according to the manner I have designed
for that category of cards). My main category will be the half cloze cards in which I
type answers and I decided to have the English translations on the back as well which
in the case of à peine would be:
Front:
J'arrive à p____ à soulever mon sac.
(hardly, 2)
Elle sait à p___ lire.
(hardly, barely, 2)
Expected typed answer: à peine
Back
à peine
loc adv
hardly,
barely,
scarcely
(so I elaborate slightly on the English meaning as seen on the back- I think this
could be overkill but I'll fiddle with this later and may scrap it deciding that
(hardly, scarcely) on the front are enough. Mind you having it this way means the
process is the same as the next type of card below and means i don't have to think too
much when entering as all fields are in the same position (English translation entered
in field two). The only difference being I add the cloze sentences as an extra field
at the end. I think having the fields in the same order of entry simplifies it.
A straight translation card will be like this:
Front:
female dog,
bitch
TYPED ANSWER: chienne
Back:
chienne
nf
female dog,
bitch
(the back is a little overkill, but since I do have a back I thought I'd keep in line
with the same as the other cards in the layout- info is only entered once btw- I don't
write female dog, bitch twice as it appears on both sides)
Then there are the recognition cards as you would call them. This is a work in
progress, completely do-able but not finalised on whether I want them, and if I do,
what the layout will be.
So that's that! Yeah right... I guess I need to accept that SRS, vocab learning, FCs
whatever are not a stagnant thing. I'll always be looking to improve the system for
acquiring new vocabulary, but for the duration i've had this topic/thread running I've
clearly been going through a 'big overhaul is needed' period.
---------
So I also discovered that by duplicating my original 10,000 word deck so I have a
second deck exactly the same, then creating a "combination deck" within the app that I
tell it to combine the 10,000 deck with the new deck with all the new styled cards
listed above. Then while reviewing from within the new combination deck I can go
through and test the new cards in all the new manner/layout while reviewing the old
cards in their given manner. As the old cards never had an assigned category I just
designed a layout for 'unassigned' cards that suits them. Furthermore I discoverd that
if I press exclude on any given individual (likely old) card while reviewing (on a
bucket load of cards as I which I now deem unworthy due to being too
easy/known/complicated) I can then after a study session/a week/some time period go
into a view mode of all cards, filter for 'excluded' cards and delete them! They get
deleted from the duplicate 10,000 deck, so they wont'show up again in my combination
deck either. In this process I get rid of the junk while still having my old 10,000
deck remain intact collecting dust, get to study new cards and keep all the various
methods of study depending on the type of card that comes up. There's actually no
delete function with multiple 'filtered' cards that I could find. I just created a new
empty deck called "La poubelle" and move the excluded cards to there for later
deletion of the entire "poubelle deck"
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Edited by PeterMollenburg on 19 June 2015 at 4:59am
1 person has voted this message useful
| PeterMollenburg
Senior Member
AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5479 days ago
821 posts - 1273 votes
Speaks: English*
Studies: FrenchB1
| Message 426 of 451 27 June 2015 at 2:16am | IP Logged |
A round up of my final conclusions on SRS:
PeterMollenburg wrote:
@Cod2,
Thanks for the update Cod2,
Your conclusions (naturally) are different than mine.
@all participants in this thread...
Thanks everyone for your input in providing your opinion(s), relating your own
methods, or suggesting potential improvements to mine.
In the end I walked away (yet again) from complicating the issue and have stuck to a
basic deck that uses this principle:
Front = clue (usually 'half cloze' cards)
Back = answer
side 3 = dictionary form (eg infinitive for verbs) and some other details.
I am finding more and more that side 1 is entirely French. Side 2 is always French. I
don't see much point now for translating the other way. I need to feel more immersed
and thus ridding myself of English wherever I can seems to be involving me more in
French. I'm unlikely to become a translator and I still believe you can translate
(maybe not with 100% accuracy) if you've learned without the crutch of L1 so much.
Side 3 as usual includes the dictionary 'standard' form (eg infinitive for a verb), a
word class eg nf (noun, feminine) and phonetics with words that are tricker to
pronounce.
For my clue side (side 1): They are often sentences with a missing word or a few
missing words. Sometimes I use a French definition instead with an expected typed
response as well with the first letter of the word at the end of the clue (cloze
again). With the cloze cards I provide a hint in brackets in French or English,
whatever I feel is more appropriate, favouring French in general. And I'll still
sometimes just use an English word for my clue, and type the French answer (basically
a stock standard L1-L2 translation).
I'm still using my old deck for reviewing of all those words I've come across up to
creating my new deck. After I've finished reviewing new words (just another 220 to go)
I'll go into 'exclude' mode with that deck and systematically exclude as much as I
possibly can to minimize my reliance with that deck until some time in the future that
deck becomes completely excluded, or perhaps what little remains I transfer to my new
deck.
Thanks again peoples,
peace up
PM, for realz
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2 persons have voted this message useful
| PeterMollenburg
Senior Member
AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5479 days ago
821 posts - 1273 votes
Speaks: English*
Studies: FrenchB1
| Message 427 of 451 27 June 2015 at 1:24pm | IP Logged |
Je me demande parfois si mon niveau d'intelligence est beaucoup plus bas que de ce que je le crois être. À
l'actualité d'aujourd'hui j'ai pris une autre décision. Et ce n'est pas au sujet de SRS. C'est au sujet des
langues que je vais étudier à l'avenir, en fait c'est plus que ça ! J'ai décidé que bien que les langues soient
très utile elles n'ont rien quand on les compare avec les chèvres ! Si je ne choisissais pas de langue à étudier
à l'avenir mais si je devenais une chèvre plutôt, je pourrais explorer les montagnes, manger des arbustes, et
même me bagarrer avec les autres chèvres.. hein ? Ça alors ! Oui, je sais exactement ce que vous en
pensez, mais non ! Je vous le défends de le faire ! C'est mon idée, et ce serait moi qui deviendra une chèvre
d'abord ! Ooooh ce serait très excitant ! Je peux voir que vous êtes tous très jaloux... ;)
2 persons have voted this message useful
| PeterMollenburg
Senior Member
AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5479 days ago
821 posts - 1273 votes
Speaks: English*
Studies: FrenchB1
| Message 428 of 451 28 June 2015 at 11:07am | IP Logged |
iguanamon wrote:
PM, garyb, How many times have you seen people talk to death learning a language
on HTLAL? "Which course should I use? Is TY better than Assimil? How do I learn vocabulary?". You know
what the response usually is. Well, people can talk to death moving to another country and sorting out their
lives too. I see it all the time here in the Virgin Islands. People come down on holiday, or find out I live in the
VI and ask me, "how can I do what you do?". I always say "buy a ticket" or "just make the move". It may
sound simplistic but so many folks fail to do that because they want to have everything down pat and
arranged first, before making the move. This almost always results in paralysis by analysis. Good, that
means there are fewer people moving here!
I've had people go through the list with me- "Is it safe?", "Where's a safe place to live?", "How can I make a
living?", etc. , etc. etc. These days I have little patience to answer them. I tell them, "it's as safe as you want it
to be, use your wits like you would anywhere else". "You can make a living by doing two simple things here-
show up and do what you say you're going to do". Of course, there has to be a need for what you do in the
first place, but if there is, that advice will serve you well.
I tell folks, if you do want to live here then come down for an extended period- at least four weeks but don't be
on vacation. Don't be a tourist. Try to live like a local. In the VI that means not having air conditioning and not
eating out in restaurants all the time. Get a condo with a kitchen and shop for groceries like we do. Better yet,
find the local farmers' market. Go to the hardware store, drive around the interior of the island to get a feel for
the neighborhoods. Talk to local people. Volunteer locally. Talk to people who do what you do, or what you
want to do, for a living. See if it's right for you. See if you like living here as opposed to being on
vacation here.
Then if you do all this and you've investigated your opportunities to make a living, just move and start your
life. It will be tough at first, no doubt about it. You'll have to have some savings to rely upon at first. If you
have made progress after six months, odds are you will continue to do so. If not, analyze your situation.
Correct any mistakes and keep trying, or, go back home. It can be done. You can make the move. I did it
ten years ago and I don't regret it. Life is short. Pub talk is cheap. I wish I had made the move 20 years ago,
but I was paralyzed by analyzing. It wasn't until I "just did it" that it happened.
I have seen single people make the move successfully and whole families too. People's situations don't seem
to matter as much as their attitudes. To change your latitude, change your attitude.
If anyone is interested, I can provide a link that can help with attitude, life (and even language learning too)
zenhabits.
P.S. PM- I think this may be inspirational for you at this point in your life story/">zenhabits- My Story |
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Hi iguanamon,
I just read 'zen habits my story'. It's a pleasant read that is pleasantly inspiring. Thank you for sharing. Now I
shall geadually make my way through the larger 'zen habits' :)
1 person has voted this message useful
| iguanamon
Pentaglot
Senior Member
Virgin Islands
Speaks: Ladino
Joined 5265 days ago
2241 posts - 6731 votes
Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French)
| Message 429 of 451 28 June 2015 at 3:06pm | IP Logged |
You're welcome PM, padekwa. I'm not saying zenhabits is the answer, but there is useful advice in there that has helped me with many of the issues I had and some that I see you posting about from time to time. To start, treat it like a buffet and take what you need. Making changes in life can be done- but not all at once. Since you like hoops- when a team is 31 points behind in a basketball game, there is no 31 point shot to make to tie the score. I've seen a team come back from 31 points down in the second half (20 minute halves NCAA) to win the game. They did it one basket at a time and one defensive stop at a time to put themselves in a position to win. The greatest comeback in NCAA basketball history-video newspaper article.
So often, here on HTLAL, we look for a quick solution to our problems. Sometimes there isn't a quick solution. Life can be like that too. We see our lives with a multitude of issues and look for a simple, quick, easy solution and there isn't one. We may then get discouraged and give up which puts us even further behind. One basket at a time may only knock the deficit down by two or three points to 28 or 27 points down and not seem like much. Keep doing it and before you know it, you've made a significant dent in the lead. The determination to keep chopping away at the deficit and simultaneously stopping the bleeding (making a defensive stop), putting a chain of progress and defense together will make a difference. Remember the first rule of holes- "when you are in one, stop digging".
Good luck PM, I will still follow your journey but I won't be proffering any unwanted advice on flashcards, native materials and ditching courses. As they say in Haitian Creole- "Ou fòse bourik janbe dlo, ou pa fòse-l bwè dlo" or St Lucian Kwéyòl- "Ou sa mennen an chouval bò lawivyè-a, mé ou pa sa fòsé'y bwè dlo-a", "you can lead a horse to water...". Funny how in Haiti it's a donkey that you 'force toward' water and in Saint Lucia you can lead a horse to the river (ou=vous/tu, pa=pas dlo=l'eau, bwè=boire, bourik=donkey, chouval=cheval; accented è/ò are pronounced as if there was a soft England "r" added to it).
For anyone reading my above quoted post, "just do it" (go ahead and make the move and stop thinking it to death) presupposes a legal permission to live somewhere. Although, I have seen many people who have made it work even without having all their "ducks in a row". Where there's a will there's a way, though usually not an easy way. Bon Chans, monchè!
Edited by iguanamon on 01 July 2015 at 2:10am
2 persons have voted this message useful
| PeterMollenburg
Senior Member
AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5479 days ago
821 posts - 1273 votes
Speaks: English*
Studies: FrenchB1
| Message 430 of 451 30 June 2015 at 12:22pm | IP Logged |
June summary
June has been the best month since January last 2014. In Jan 2014 I did a staggering
133hrs of study and that didn't factor in any watching as I wasn't counting that then
in my figures. I think I was raring to go on a mission. Needless to say I settled down
after that. I'm very happy with June as it's only the second month I've past 90hrs of
study since then, the 2nd month overall (ahead of the other 90-hour month), and the
first month I"ve averaged over 3hrs of study a day since Jan 2014 as well. All in all
a decent hard working month despite all my SRS preoccupations in the middle :)
June breakdown
Coursework = 30hrs 33min
French TV = 24hrs 59min
Audio courses = 14hrs 10min
Flashcards = 10hrs 21min
Podcasts = 4hrs 38min
Intensive reading = 3hrs 14min
Extensive reading = 3hrs 12min
1x meetup = 45min
TOTAL = 91hrs 48min
Month average = 3hrs 3min
Swing a cat in a dogs face, that ain't even quarter-real, for realz
Edited by PeterMollenburg on 01 July 2015 at 2:42am
3 persons have voted this message useful
| Teango
Triglot
Winner TAC 2010 & 2012
Senior Member
United States
teango.wordpress.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5559 days ago
2210 posts - 3734 votes
Speaks: English*, German, Russian
Studies: Hawaiian, French, Toki Pona
| Message 431 of 451 01 July 2015 at 1:46am | IP Logged |
Looking good in the first half, PM!!
Averaging 3+ hours a day is a real achievement over the course of a month, and I bet all this extra effort will soon start paying dividends in your enjoyment of French materials (that's if it isn't already).
Here's to the second half (after half-time oranges) and demolishing that B2 with flying colours!
Edited by Teango on 01 July 2015 at 1:47am
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| Mohave
Senior Member
United States
justpaste.it/Mohave1
Joined 4010 days ago
291 posts - 444 votes
Speaks: English*
Studies: French
| Message 432 of 451 01 July 2015 at 10:17pm | IP Logged |
PeterMollenburg wrote:
June summary
June has been the best month since January last 2014. In Jan 2014 I did a staggering
133hrs of study and that didn't factor in any watching as I wasn't counting that then
in my figures. I think I was raring to go on a mission. Needless to say I settled down
after that. I'm very happy with June as it's only the second month I've past 90hrs of
study since then, the 2nd month overall (ahead of the other 90-hour month), and the
first month I"ve averaged over 3hrs of study a day since Jan 2014 as well. All in all
a decent hard working month despite all my SRS preoccupations in the middle :)
June breakdown
Coursework = 30hrs 33min
French TV = 24hrs 59min
Audio courses = 14hrs 10min
Flashcards = 10hrs 21min
Podcasts = 4hrs 38min
Intensive reading = 3hrs 14min
Extensive reading = 3hrs 12min
1x meetup = 45min
TOTAL = 91hrs 48min
Month average = 3hrs 3min
Swing a cat in a dogs face, that ain't even quarter-real, for realz |
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A very, very impressive month of June!! You are definitely setting a standard to beat!
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