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February 6 Week Challenge | ||
Tags: 6 Weeks Challenge (6WC) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Sprachprofi Nonaglot Senior Member Germany learnlangs.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6478 days ago 2608 posts - 4866 votes  Speaks: German*, English, French, Esperanto, Greek, Mandarin, Latin, Dutch, Italian Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swahili, Indonesian, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Portuguese | Message 73 of 93 01 March 2014 at 1:39pm | IP Logged | |||||
That is why I originally envisioned the 6WC as a beginners' event where everyone would be logging work with textbooks, Anki, conversations and so on. The rule against B2 and higher participants was supposed to keep out people who were at a high enough level that most of their "study time" would involve very sustainable activities such as reading for pleasure or watching TV. Same with the rule against logging time for activities where you aren't focused on target language input. However, we had a vote on it a while back and people decided that e. g. logging TV time as 100% is permissible, even as a beginner who couldn't possibly get much out of it. 6 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| druckfehler Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4876 days ago 1181 posts - 1912 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Korean Studies: Persian | Message 74 of 93 01 March 2014 at 3:57pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I think that TV or music listening can be beneficial especially at A0, just to get used to the sound of the language. I would count that as 100%, too. But I guess it's a question of degree - if you listen to the same music over and over or just have it on in the background there won't be much - or even any - benefit. If you watch lots of TV without studying anything else, you won't get that much out of it and I doubt that you'll stay focused on it for more than 10 minutes at a time.
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| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6605 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 75 of 93 01 March 2014 at 4:54pm | IP Logged | |||||
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The person we were discussing is/was in Japan, though. And as you know reaching B2 in such a language can take very, very long, so there's no need to assume that being eligible for the challenge means one is new to the language/barely A1.
Also, doing fun stuff can be tiring too. Just think of reading Silmarillion in your native language (or Hegel if that's what you prefer)... Believe it or not, I'm familiar with burnout too. And I don't understand why anyone who's bothered by these scores can't just make sure they are listening to TL music as much as possible. Try it before saying it's all easy peasy. And maintaining focus for longer than 10 minutes is certainly possible. Or if not, nobody is forbidden from taking breaks. Edited by Serpent on 01 March 2014 at 4:58pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4917 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 76 of 93 01 March 2014 at 6:42pm | IP Logged | |||||
You are making some good general points, Serpent. If someone questioned you I'm sure you would have a good answer. But someone who writes that they don't care what other participants think isn't really playing nicely. The question has come up because this person has been logging 6 hours of music a day, which means that they claim to be listening to 12 hours a day. That besides all of the other study they log, and besides working full-time. It may be possible, but it stretches credibility, which is why some of us have asked about it. As you point out, Serpent, listening to a lot of music isn't "easy peasy". So you raise the question, is she really listening? This person doesn't need you defending them, Serpent. You know as much as the rest of us. But Sprachprofi brought the discussion to her notice, and gave her a link to the thread. It wouldn't be that difficult for her to answer the legitimate questions people have asked. Most people asking the questions have been very polite and seem like they would be willing to believe her if she would give an answer. Is that too much to ask? 5 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| druckfehler Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4876 days ago 1181 posts - 1912 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Korean Studies: Persian | Message 77 of 93 01 March 2014 at 6:45pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I'm getting the sense that you're just arguing for the sake of arguing, Serpent. I don't think you use the same logging philosophy as the participant who sparked this discussion, but I'm getting the sense that you're arguing because you think native-material studying is under attack - which I assure you is not the case. It may or may not be fun to listen to 12 hours of target language music. That's totally besides the point. The exact level of proficiency is also besides the point. The point is that extensive listening to music 12 hours per day is not comparable to 6 hours of studying vocabulary, working through Assimil, intensive reading, etc. at any level. Of course, the way people study is not 100% comparable in any case, but this is an extreme example, which I take to be the reason why people have been pointing it out.
But maybe the 6WC rules allow for logging anything and everything, whether it's likely to boost your language skills a lot, a little, or hardly at all. I'm generally in favor of letting people decide for themselves how efficient any method they use is. If someone gets a kick out of logging countless hours without improving their actual language skills to that extent, so be it. The thing I find problematic about it is that it sets unrealistic standards. It defeats the goals of a ranking system, which is to motivate by competition. However, even if people continue to interpret their studying time very differently, the challenge is still a great idea and can help a lot with motivation. You just have to realise that you're not really competing against those who use a different set of rules, otherwise the challenge is in danger of losing its motivational value. Edited by druckfehler on 01 March 2014 at 6:52pm 5 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6605 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 78 of 93 01 March 2014 at 8:59pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Is she even a HTLAL member though? I don't think so. And if she works in Japan she may well have Japanese music on at her work place. Or whatever. I do know more than others, I've talked to her on twitter and she's an AJATT'er. That's a satisfactory explanation for me. BTW Woodsei is also an ajatter but i don't remember her getting this sort of... feedback. (and frankly, I think it's understandable if someone is discussed behind her back and as a result doesn't care what other people think)
I guess it mostly upsets me that the attitudes towards the Super Challenge are completely different: "Everyone is mature enough to choose goals acording their own level and difficulty of target language..." "It seems like one or two people have made this a competition. It's not, and was never meant to be. It was meant to improve your target language. It doesn't matter what your native language is. Or what level you are at. Or if you're working full time or part time. Or any of that." Basically, I have a lot of sympathy for your burnout, as I built my life around the 2012/2013 Super Challenge when it was on. But I've accepted that the rules of any challenge will favour those who are learning only one language. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4917 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 79 of 93 01 March 2014 at 9:29pm | IP Logged | |||||
I have an idea what AJATT is, but I'm not sure how that's an explanation. Do you mean to say she just has something in Japanese on all the time, and since she's an AJATTer she can count it? Whatever her method, I'll bring up the relevant statement from http://6wc.learnlangs.com/howto :
I think it is also relevant to think about the word study, which is what the timings are supposed to record. Can anyone put music on for 12 hours a day and call it studying? If they are really paying attention, then yes they could say that. So for something like music, it is really important to follow the Sprachprofi's guideline to "award yourself a fraction of the minutes, corresponding to the percentage of your attention that you gave to the target language". 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6605 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 80 of 93 01 March 2014 at 10:03pm | IP Logged | |||||
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And that's why she counts 50%. I personally count 100% unless I'm interacting with other humans while listening. But I don't listen for that many hours. And I've already quoted the tweet where she said that some of this time is spent studying the lyrics.
As far as I'm concerned you don't have to be an AJATT'er to count media. But I can see why many don't bother to count it, especially in their "other" languages. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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