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Gary’s 2015 TACtivation: FR, IT | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| tastyonions Triglot Senior Member United States goo.gl/UIdChYRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4668 days ago 1044 posts - 1823 votes  Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 161 of 187 16 June 2015 at 2:57pm | IP Logged | ||
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"Faut pas exagérer !"
(Intransitif) Dépasser la juste mesure dans ses propos ou ses actes. Tout comme "abuser," autre mot un peu trompeur : "...si je ne m'abuse." Ça ne veut pas dire "Si je ne me maltraite..." mais "si je ne fais pas d'erreur." :-) Edited by tastyonions on 16 June 2015 at 2:59pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5210 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 162 of 187 16 June 2015 at 3:40pm | IP Logged | ||
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Yep, it seems similar in French to in Italian. There are plenty of these cases where word usage overlaps but isn't quite the same, and lots of input gives you a good sense for them, although in my case I "overcompensated" by using the word in a context that wasn't appropriate even for Italian's wider usage.
Time management for multiple languages I considered and posted my current philosophy on this in a thread on the subject, but it seems like an appropriate thing to write on my log too. chaotic_thought's description of primary and secondary languages struck a chord with what I've been doing for the last few weeks and intend to continue to do: - I have a "primary" language (Italian) that I'm very keen to improve, and a "secondary" one (French) for which my aim is maintenance although improvement would be a bonus. - I try to do a minimum of work on the secondary one every day, say 15-30 minutes, and that's mostly passive work like listening/watching/reading. - Remaining language time goes to the primary one, and for that I do active work (speaking, writing etc.) as well as input. - In theory there could be several secondary ones, if you have enough time each day (or maybe you could do alternate days, I don't know). I'll worry about this whenever I restart Spanish. It could either become the primary or be secondary for some time to work on passively before recommencing serious study; will decide at the time. - They can be switched around whenever you want, although to me it makes sense to focus on one "primary" for at least a few months at a time. I prefer this to trying to split 50-50, as it feels like I'm doing one "properly" rather than not doing quite enough in either. I have more motivation for Italian so it makes sense to get French out of the way first and then focus on Italian for an indefinite time. In practice this means that on a weekday evening I'll come home from work and get some French input while preparing and eating dinner. Then I have the rest of the evening for Italian and music and whatever else I want to do. Also on the subject of time management, I recently disactivated my Facebook account and I'm suddenly getting much more done in the evenings, including language study. It's a distraction, using it for 5-10 minutes here and there really adds up, and it makes it harder to really disconnect from social life and have focused time for yourself. It was more of a problem than I thought. I'll reactivate it sooner or later and try to just use it sensibly for messages and events rather than getting sucked into reading and posting on the news feed. Or I could be a proper "language hacker" and only follow foreign-language pages and users... EDIT: Now that I think about it, the idea of alternating days between passive work on French and Spanish is looking very tempting! It might be enough to keep my French alive while very slowly but steadily improving and consolidating my Spanish understanding. I've already got too many things on at the moment and I want to see how the current IT/FR plan goes, but it's an idea for later on in the year if my attitude stays the same as it currently is (wanting to focus on Italian, not having much need for active French, keen to have some Spanish in my life but not yet willing to commit to serious work on it). Edited by garyb on 16 June 2015 at 4:34pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5210 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 163 of 187 19 June 2015 at 1:13pm | IP Logged | ||
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Bit of media:
Started reading La carte et le territoire. So far (around 25% through) it seems a lot lighter than Houellebecq's other works... no graphic sex or violence yet, not too much depression and deep philosophising. More just the ironic look at modern society that he does well, in particular high society and artistic circles in this one. I'll see how the rest goes though - some of his other books have started off light then taken me by surprise. This is the one where he uses himself as a character, what a guy. Language is quite easy to read as usual; a few sentences describing haute cuisine dishes had both me and my Kindle dictionary stumped, but I doubt I'd have done much better in English. Tried to watch the rest of Non pensarci but it just didn't engage me at all, it was fairly uninteresting drama about a family. I chose it for the music aspect of the story, but that was a far more minor part than I had hoped. I feel like I've exhausted the good stuff in the modern drama/comedy genre and I'm onto the dregs now, or maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places. These last few choices have come from "People who liked this also liked..." on IMDB, which seems more like "Similar but not as good". Might be time to ask Italian friends for some recommendations, or explore other genres and classic stuff more. I go for modern drama/comedy partly because it's great for learning (modern language and culture, dialogue-heavy, everyday subjects), partly because I don't always feel like heavier subjects, and partly because that's what Italy mostly produces these days. But there's lots of quality cinema beyond that: neorealism, crime, horror, commedia all'italiana. Anyone remember the music challenge? Not me apparently, I fell off the wagon after a few weeks. But the other week I stumbled across Raein, an emo band in the traditional "emotional hardcore punk" sense of the word. Probably more "screamo" actually. I believe I actually saw them play here around a decade ago, if I remember well. Italian lyrics, at least on this album. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5210 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 164 of 187 22 June 2015 at 10:38am | IP Logged | ||
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I was at a mostly Spanish/Italian party at the weekend where I was the only native English speaker. Not a great experience though, the Italians weren't too friendly, quite cliquey and I very much got the whole "you're not one of us" feeling. Conversations with them were difficult and painful, and not because of languages. I've encountered this in the past (post about 3/4 down the page); the usual strategy is to instead speak to the Spanish, who tend to be a bit more open, but even they weren't biting this time.
My Spanish may be good enough to follow the conversation, but even that gets tricky with lots of people in a noisy environment, and I can forget about joining in. I wasn't in the most sociable mood anyway, usual tiredness, which also didn't help. There was a token French guy but he was busy chatting up a girl and I didn't want to interrupt. Bit of a disappointment socially and linguistically but to look on the bright side I suppose it was good listening practice, a few hours of input before I left and refrained from saying "è stato un piacere" or "ha sido un placer" because I don't like lying. And the food was excellent. More motivation for Spanish... I don't need motivation though, I need time! And better health; I've been getting toothache in the last few days, just to add to the list. One of my Italian contacts is a dentist, maybe I need to get on Skype and stick the webcam in my mouth. I watched Barbarella, a silly erotic sci-fi film from the late 60s that Italian friends had told me about. Great fun. Also some more I soliti idioti. It's a bit like a less funny Litte Britain, and Little Britain can be hit or miss to begin with. It's a good challenge but at times just painful to watch so I'm not sure whether to continue. But this is Italian TV, beggars can't be choosers. Edited by garyb on 22 June 2015 at 10:42am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Robierre Tetraglot Newbie Croatia Joined 4007 days ago 16 posts - 29 votes Speaks: Croatian*, Italian, French, English Studies: German | Message 165 of 187 22 June 2015 at 11:51pm | IP Logged | ||
garyb, from your last three posts I can recognize myself totally; my last 100% French barbecue-party was exactly the same! But then again, my small talk skills are also very low in my mother language. One thing is sure: I realized that I have to work more on my colloquial French. Concerning the quoted part: La carte et le teritoire was my first Houellebecq's novel in French (I read all his other books also). If you like the change in his way of thinking comparing to previous titles, I can recommend you his newest novel: Soumission. Such a beautiful humor. And much more: I knew it that at some point I will see him siting for hours in a chapel in front of the statue of virgin Mary or admitting, after all these pornographic scenes, that all what relay matters in the end is a simple gentle hug. :)) The language is also not too difficult! Cheers Edited by Robierre on 22 June 2015 at 11:52pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5210 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 166 of 187 23 June 2015 at 9:48am | IP Logged | ||
I've found the French to be even more cliquey than what I described of the Italians, so I'm not surprised. To paraphrase a joke I made earlier in my log: at the party the Spanish were all at one side of the room, the Italians were all at the other, and the French (except the one token guy) were all at their own party because they're too good to hang out with other nationalities. Fortunately from being able to hang around with a lot of Italians over the years I've managed to pick up a certain level of small talk, while for French I've not often had that opportunity. You can certainly learn colloquial language to an extent from films/books/TV but I find that nothing's quite the same as experiencing it in real life. I'm also not the world's best conversationalist even in English but I can generally manage well enough if the other party is receptive. However if I'm having to force it, like at that party, then it's a lot more difficult: I guess I don't have that salesman-like motivation to turn them around and make them interested, life's too short and there are more people out there and all that. I'm definitely enjoying the humour in La carte et le territoire. I've now read all his previous novels, so it's only Soumission remaining after that. Edited by garyb on 23 June 2015 at 10:30am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5210 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 167 of 187 26 June 2015 at 3:33pm | IP Logged | ||
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I realised I've not written an Italian entry this week. I've not done a lot this week so not had much to write about, and on Monday when I did the last update I was tired and didn't have lots of time so I just stuck to English. But I'll do a couple of paragraphs just to maintain the habit, and to go out of my comfort zone and write about a couple of slightly specialised topics: my dentist visit (as it's a different subject from the usual) and music (putting into practice what I've already mentioned about learning vocabulary).
Il dentista: Siccome avevo avuto mal di denti da qualche giorno e il dolore non si attenuava, anzi peggiorava, ho chiamato il dentista per prendere un appuntamento. Nello studio mi ha visitato e ha spiegato che ho un'infezione nella gengiva sotto un dente di giudizio, e la sua prima proposta era di togliermi il dente coinvolto. Ma per fortuna ha cambiato idea quando ho detto che era la prima volta che avevo avuto un problema simile e mi ha semplicemente fatto una ricetta per degli antibiotici... me la sono scampata bella! The dentist: Since I had had toothache for a few days and the pain wasn't letting up, in fact it was getting worse, I called the dentist to make an appointment. In the surgery he examined me and explained that I have an infection in the gum above a wisdom tooth, and his first proposal was to take out the tooth involved. But he fortunately changed his mind when I said that it was the first time I had had a problem like that and he simply gave me a prescription for antibiotics... I narrowly escaped there! La musica: Di recente sto imparando a suonare un brano degli Opeth, che si chiama The Leper Affinity. È un pezzo che all'inizio sembra difficile ma quando ci si prende la mano è molto divertente da suonare, ha un bel ritmo e molta variazione. Gli Opeth sono un gruppo metal progressivo (o lo erano, dati i loro album recenti che non hanno molto a che fare con il metal) ma si ispirano molto alla musica classica, e qui questo si vede: ci sono molti elementi che non si trovano spesso nel rock, come le scale minori armoniche e cromatici, gli arpeggi diminuiti, e le modulazioni. Il pezzo dura oltre dieci minuti; nel mezzo c'è una parte acustica e alla fine una parte del pianoforte. Ieri ho pure provato a imparare quell'ultima parte ma la mia piccola tastiera non ha abbastanza tasti: due ottave non bastano! So già suonare alcuni altri pezzi dell'album, vorrei impararli tutti ma non sono convinto che sia un buon uso del tempo... Music: Recently I've been learning to play an Opeth track called The Leper Affinity. It's a piece that seems difficult at first but once you get the hang of it it's great fun to play, it has a nice groove and a lot of variation. Opeth are a progressive metal band (or they were, given their recent albums that don't have much to do with metal) but they're inspired a lot by classical music, and here you can tell: there are a lot of elements that aren't often found in rock, like harmonic minor and cromatic scales, dimished arpeggios, and modulations. The piece is over ten minutes long; in the middle there's an acoustic part and at the end a piano part. Yesterday I even tried to learn that last part but my little keyboard doesn't have enough keys, two octaves aren't enough! I already know how to play a few other pieces from the album, I'd like to learn them all but I'm not convinced it's a good use of time... Edited by garyb on 26 June 2015 at 3:35pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5210 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 168 of 187 29 June 2015 at 12:23pm | IP Logged | ||
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Positive update!
I had an interesting weekend full of Italian as a friend of my flatmate was visiting from Italy. While he does speak some English, he's more comfortable in Italian. We had good conversations on all sorts of things from everyday stuff to philosophy and art. Recently I'm going through a bit of a psychology phase, trying to work through various problems I've had for a while, and it's also having benefit for languages. When you're less preoccupied with things like fear, shame, and anxiety and you get better at being present and in the moment, you suddenly have more mental energy to dedicate to speaking; you're less held back by perfectionism and less worried about mistakes and the idea of making them, more willing to try to explain something even if you know it'll be difficult and probably won't come out right. I'm beginning to feel more relaxed when speaking the language and caring a lot less when I say something "stupid" or fumble around when explaining things, and in turn I'm more willing to say them and have less of the "language shyness" effect where I want to say something but don't because I don't feel like I can express it well. Pronunciation/accent/voice: still slowly working away and trying to put all the corrections and suggestions into practice. Intonation is getting a bit more consistent; I've mostly fixed the dental Ts and Ds but finding it a lot harder to correct the habit with affricates (ci, gi, etc. - it seems that in my mental model I see these as separate sounds rather than ones based on t/d...); my /u/ is still often all over the place but I'm at least more aware when it is; same for most other things really, now that I'm aware of them I'm slowly improving them. The voice work is going extremely slowly: usual problem of not enough hours in the day. I'm also beginning to develop a sense of humour in Italian: making jokes, asking questions or giving answers that aren't completely serious, some word play. This is partly from my level improving, partly from that psychological stuff above, but mostly just from spending a lot of time around native speakers and picking up on their humour, especially people who are good friends and joke around a lot. I keep saying it but there's just no substitute for spending time with natives if your goal is to reach a high speaking level. We went to a Spanish paella and sangria party last night. There was Spanish music playing and the people serving the food and drink spoke to us in Spanish. Felt like being in Spain for an evening, although in Spain with Italian friends! My Italian listening comprehension definitely suffered from the noisy environment and from constantly hearing Spanish in the other ear, I had some difficulty following conversations. I've also found myself learning some Tárrega on the guitar in the last few days: another sign that my Spanish motivation is getting more and more difficult to contain? Anyway that's all good stuff; I'm not going to get over-excited by one good weekend, and all these positive changes are still very much work in progress, but I hope it continues and it's a sign of things to come. (edit: accidentally underlined half the post with my IPA, and it's phonological so slashes are probably more correct than square brackets anyway!) Edited by garyb on 29 June 2015 at 12:25pm 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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