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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4999 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes  Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 49 of 68 14 January 2015 at 11:19pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Well, I think the distinction between Central and Eastern Europe is extremely
important and ignoring centuries of different development just because of more or less 40 years of tragedy, that is very offensive. Central Europe has been under the same evolution. From the Kingdom of Bohemia with close ties to Poland and to the Saint Empire through the centuries to the Austria-Hungary and the WW2. The development has been very different after the fall of the iron curtain as well. Sure, the Czech Republic is far from perfect but there are usually immigrants coming here from the Eastern countries, not vice versa. Actually, this offensive prejudice I meet everywhere I go, that is one of the reasons why one of my life plan versions is "finish medschool, get a job abroad, get citizenship, never present myself as a czech again" :-( I am just tired of people surprised we don't cook over open fire at home (really, czechs are sometimes being explained the basic things like the cooker or the washing machine), of people calling me Russian or those assuming I am a communist. Especially from people whose countries have lower living standard for a large part of population, drown in debts and don't stand by many of their civil rights anymore. I find it quite hypocritical when such disdain comes from citizens of countries that played a major part in the soviets gaining influence here by betraying us, some of them repeatedly. Yes, I know a usual American or similarily educated person cannot be bothered even knowing the Czechoslovakia doesn't exist since 1993 and that Slovakia is a different country than Slovenia, but still. I am not the one to just join the comfortable majority that just nods and lets it be, no matter whether it is a good or a bad thing to do. Well, Czech might still be too close, Ari, there is a not negligeable genetic piece of Swedish in the czech cells, due to the war of thirty years ;-) You might actually find that genetical viking heritage in half Europe. 6 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4697 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 50 of 68 15 January 2015 at 12:32am | IP Logged | |||||
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That's all very true, but the question is whether you can reliably expect everyone to
memorize all the history. One has to be pretty interested in the region to make that kind of effort. And I always correct people when they talk about "Czechoslovakia", because for my parents' generation that's still a country and it's what they learned at school on maps, but to me they are obviously different countries. That generation simply grew up with a different impression of the Eastern Bloc, and because these countries weren't popular at schools even those who do realise they are separate countries now they haven't a clue what went on there. For most people aged 45+ everything east of Germany was commie back in the day. That's simply their mental association. My parents totally didn't understand what I was doing in Romania either, and that country is worse off than the Czech Republic. I mean people probably also have the idea we smoke weed a lot here, and that everyone secretly has gay sex, because you know, that's how stereotypes work. I just go with the flow and let them think that stuff and explain how it actually works. I can't expect every American/Englishman/Frenchie/German to understand all of that because it's not routinely taught. Anyone who's interested in the Czech Republic will see through that barrier quickly enough. Edited by tarvos on 15 January 2015 at 12:33am 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4999 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 51 of 68 15 January 2015 at 1:27am | IP Logged | |||||
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Thanks for your kindness, Tarvos, coming in spite of the bitchiness that might be
perceived in my post. Thanks :-) Well, I don't feel bad because of the old people, I know they just spent their education times in a different world. Yet, it makes me angry when someone young from Germany asks me where is the Czech Republic and it is not such a rarity. And there are more such mistakes that persist through generations. However, it is getting slightly better as at least the EU countries of the former area of doom are becoming popular destinations not only for tourists but as well for exchange students. However, I don't believe the prejudice will die out during my lifetime, that's why I often feel like giving up on my country (especially when I see some of those who represent it). Well, but the Netherlands usually come out of all this as a cool place, that is a bit different. And your speedskaters and the royal family are doing some really cool PR to the country :-) You know, I just find it really stupid to commonly hear Americans say things like "why should we know the individual tiny states of Europe, they don't know where Kentucky is either". Or being part of those funny dialogues like "And what is it like in Hungary?" "I am not from Hungary" "It is the same thing, what is it like in Hungary?". I've never been to Hungary but it is really high on my list of places to visit by the way. But it is still not the same. Ari, have you considered Hungarian? It is less close than Finnish but probably equally difficult. And Budapest is said to be one of the most beautiful cities in Europe. Or perhaps Korean? It is surely a difficult, Asian language, with fascinating script and it isn't as mainstream as Japanese by far :-) If you choose Czech in the end, I'll be excited to put together some list of resources for you :-) . I already did part of it for Rem in his log. What kinds of music did you like? I recommend you to add these samples: Marta Kubišová (I love the song Depeše) Karel Kryl (for exemple Král a Klaun) Znouzecnost (Anděl) Kabát Jaromír Nohavica (he sings in Polish as well at times) Karel Gott (he is loved in Germany, at least by some generations) or if you like classical music, our greatest composer is Antonín Dvořák. As to something more modern: Bohuslav Martinů. And operas by Bedřich Smetana are well known as well. Edited by Cavesa on 15 January 2015 at 1:28am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Juаn Senior Member Colombia Joined 5335 days ago 727 posts - 1830 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 52 of 68 15 January 2015 at 1:59am | IP Logged | |||||
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One does observe distinctive features in the development of what are often denominated Eastern and Western Europe: the growth of towns throughout the later middle ages, the ratio between labor and land, the institution of serfdom, agrarian productivity, the expansion of commerce and eventually manufacturing, and decisively, the state-making process.
That there are differences between the historical Bohemian and Moravian territories and Serbia or the Ukraine - so there are between northern and southern France or Italy, Castille and Aragón, Brandenburg and Bavaria, none of which prevent us from grouping them when relevant. I believe all in all it makes sense to talk of an Eastern an a Western Europe, which doesn't imply a disadvantage to the former. George W. Bush was right after all when he spoke of a new and an old Europe. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4999 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 53 of 68 15 January 2015 at 2:58am | IP Logged | |||||
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Well, for just the same reasons, I believe it makes only sense to speak about western,
northern, central, eastern, southern and southeastern Europe. The cultural and historical differences are just too large. In need to make it a shorter list, than still the eastern, central and western remain. Sorting us, who have had much more in common with the western than eastern part of Europe amont the eastern, that is a huge disadvantage that reflects upon our daily lives. It begins with the stupid individuals considering us to be behind the borders of civilisation and continues up to the international enterprizes bringing worse quality goods here for the same price you buy the better alternatives in Spain, Germany or France and to many things being available here much later without any good reason. It is a huge disadvantage, at times it feels like having a disease. To avoid misunderstanding: no, I do not consider the true eastern europe to be behind civilisation or anything like that. It is just a much less safe area in many ways and a much poorer one in general. And truth be told a source of troubles for my country during history. And culturally, it is a very different tradition that deserves to be taken on its own, not melted together with the central european one. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6572 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 54 of 68 15 January 2015 at 8:34am | IP Logged | |||||
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I can totally see where you're coming from, Cavesa. Here, too, there's a general tendency to group the Czech Republic with Belarus and Ukraine. I think the language has something to do with it, too. Most non-speakers of slavic languages have trouble hearing the difference between them, and so they think it all sounds like Russian. This makes the mental grouping even easier. And the rest is PR, of course. In some ways it's a shame the country didn't decide to name itself "Bohemia". I can see why you wouldn't want to (for one thing, the Moravians and Silesians wouldn't be too happy), but "Bohemia" has a lot of positive associations and it's more closely linked to the West in the minds of many. Today a lot of people think Bohemia is in Germany.
At any rate, I'll do my best to spread the love of the Czech lands when I get the inevitable question "Why on earth are you studying Czech?". First I'll look them in the eyes and say "Strč prst skrz krk". And then I'll tell them what a great country it is. :) 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| lichtrausch Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5950 days ago 525 posts - 1072 votes Speaks: English*, German, Japanese Studies: Korean, Mandarin | Message 55 of 68 16 January 2015 at 7:15am | IP Logged | |||||
If it's true that Czech TV series are better than German ones, that would really be incredible considering that the German and Czech speaking worlds are quite similar except that German has about 10x as many speakers. Alright, the best German TV series I can think of is Stromberg. What Czech series beats that? (not for the sake of having a pissing contest; I am genuinely interested)
I would assume yes. How many awesome Swedish science fiction movies and books are there? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| robarb Nonaglot Senior Member United States languagenpluson Joined 5049 days ago 361 posts - 921 votes Speaks: Portuguese, English*, German, Italian, Spanish, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, French Studies: Mandarin, Danish, Russian, Norwegian, Cantonese, Japanese, Korean, Polish, Greek, Latin, Nepali, Modern Hebrew | Message 56 of 68 16 January 2015 at 7:47am | IP Logged | |||||
Arguably, no. Swedish public radio is top-notch. Swedish literature includes classics such as Strindberg, children's favorites such as Lindgren, and international thriller sensation Stieg Larsson. Seven Swedish writers have won the Nobel Prize in literature (OK, maybe that is a little biased). Danish and Norwegian literature is mostly comprehensible to readers of Swedish, or at least can be translated without much loss. Swedish television is not the best in the world, but there are several quality shows and it's available to watch free online anywhere. Swedish films and Swedish-language music are also produced in a respectable quantity. You can read articles on the Internet in Swedish to your heart's content. Of course it's all relative, and if you want to claim it isn't enough, you have the right to do so. Certainly it's nowhere near what you have for French or English. But as a learner of Swedish I can attest that tons of native materials exist. If I were a Swede I'd be proud of my country's media presence! But no, as for science fiction I cannot think of single one. ;) 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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