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Esperanto a waste of time? | ||
 Language Learning Forum : Esperanto |  | |
| Sprachprofi Nonaglot Senior Member Germany learnlangs.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6476 days ago 2608 posts - 4866 votes  Speaks: German*, English, French, Esperanto, Greek, Mandarin, Latin, Dutch, Italian Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swahili, Indonesian, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Portuguese | Message 297 of 351 22 November 2010 at 11:15pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I did not say that only Esperantists believed in this - I know there are plenty of others - nor did I say that I used Pasporta Servo exclusively. I was just explaining the dreaded internal idea to Doitsujin, who said
I do prefer using Pasporta Servo to Couchsurfing, and I prefer hosting Pasporta Servo guests rather than Couchsurfers. In my experience, the spirit is different. With an apartment in walking distance of Berlin's sights, I could host several people every night if I wanted, but due to my own travels, repeat visitors and times when I need space, I average about 40 people a year, about half of which are from Couchsurfing or similar. In my experience, many Couchsurfers I hosted were just looking for freebies, didn't care about Germany or Berlin other than wanting to know about the best places to party, and often only came back to sleep or eat. Pasporta Servo guests were more considerate, e. g. not coming empty-handed, not relying on me to pay their fare at a restaurant, offering to help around the apartment, and they were also much more interested in discovering German culture and sharing their own. I know that the Couchsurfing guidelines are supposedly all that, but Couchsurfing is still advertised as a free alternative to a hotel, and that's how a lot of people behave, while Pasporta Servo is advertised as a way to gain first-hand experience of a foreign culture. In the end, I guess it depends on what kind of guest you'd like to have or be. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Sprachprofi Nonaglot Senior Member Germany learnlangs.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6476 days ago 2608 posts - 4866 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Esperanto, Greek, Mandarin, Latin, Dutch, Italian Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swahili, Indonesian, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Portuguese | Message 298 of 351 23 November 2010 at 6:25pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Working at the Esperanto stand at the Expolingua I once again noticed how much more
friendly or at least tolerant the monolingual/bilingual masses were towards Esperanto, compared to this forum that is supposedly all about enjoying languages together and encouraging each other in our quests. The most negative comment I heard in 6 hours of talking to fair-goers was "it's not for me but I wish you success". 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Juаn Senior Member Colombia Joined 5351 days ago 727 posts - 1830 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 299 of 351 23 November 2010 at 8:14pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Perhaps that's not so much an irony as you believe but rather the reason behind the different reactions? Compare the general public's attitude towards astrology to that of physicists or astronomers. You could regard the former's view of astrology as "tolerant" by comparison with the latter's. These of course would dismiss this "tolerance" as simple ignorance. Something analogous may apply to a section of language enthusiasts. To them for Esperanto to pretend to be regarded as a "language" on the same order as Romanian, Amharic, Marathi, Korean or any other natural language seems as ludicrous as the notion that the position of the stars has any bearing on human affairs would be to most cosmologists. Because this is a forum for those passionate about languages, language matters are bound to raise greater passions here than among casual fair-goers. 8 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Gusutafu Senior Member Sweden Joined 5527 days ago 655 posts - 1039 votes Speaks: Swedish* | Message 301 of 351 23 November 2010 at 9:15pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
The question is not about completeness in a grammatical sense, I'm sure they have most tenses and moods covered. But it's indeed ludicrous (and a sign of the eternal hubris of man) to think that one individual can create a language that can even be compared to what God, history and mankind have helped create over millenia. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Juаn Senior Member Colombia Joined 5351 days ago 727 posts - 1830 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 302 of 351 23 November 2010 at 9:29pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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What I was putting forward was not science as a standard, but rather pointing out the contrasting nature of the views of a committed, passionate community towards the object of its endeavors to those of the general, uninformed public.
If you define a "language" to be a means of communication then yes, Esperanto is "complete". So is communicating by making armpit noises. For me though a language entails much more than this. For if the above was all there was to languages -the transmission of messages- why learn a second one, much less an eleventh or twentieth, when a single one suffices to be able to "communicate"? Everything that appeals to me about languages is missing in Esperanto, so outside a specialist's definition, I wouldn't consider it a language at all. I just started my tenth language this morning, but if Esperanto materials was all I had access to, I would rather remain monolingual. That's not to say everyone must feel the same way. Others can be as passionate about Esperanto as non-Esperantists indifferent to its (in my opinion) vacuity and conceit. Edited by Juаn on 23 November 2010 at 9:35pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Juаn Senior Member Colombia Joined 5351 days ago 727 posts - 1830 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 304 of 351 23 November 2010 at 10:18pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Any charlatan can write an astrology column, but (most of the time) he won't be able pass muster in the Astrophysical Journal. The comparison was one between substance and fluff. Sprachprofi said that among people who know and care little about language-learning opinions about Esperanto were more subdued that among those who devote their lives to language-learning. And I replied, but of course! It is effortless to be tolerant towards something one knows, cares and understands nothing about.
I didn't claim Esperanto didn't meet a specialist's standard for being a language. Anything that achieves communication does. This doesn't mean however they're on the same level as a real language with all they entail, subjectively, culturally, which again is the reason one, or at least I, learn languages. Edited by Juаn on 23 November 2010 at 10:23pm 4 persons have voted this message useful |
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