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My English teacher really hates Esperanto | ||
 Language Learning Forum : Esperanto |  | |
| Art07 Groupie Russian Federation Joined 6216 days ago 61 posts - 64 votes  Speaks: Russian* | Message 177 of 194 23 November 2007 at 4:28am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Sprachprofi,
also, what Noam Chomsky as a linguist thinks of Esperanto? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| remush Tetraglot Groupie Belgium remush.beRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6270 days ago 79 posts - 94 votes Speaks: French*, Esperanto, English, Dutch Studies: German, Polish | Message 178 of 194 23 November 2007 at 4:38am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
There is 1 man who speaks Esperanto at the highest level (I understand him very well) There are 10 people who speak Esperanto at the second level. There are 100 people at the third level There are 1000 people at the fourth, ... and 1 000 000 at the seven. At the seven level, one is able to understand this all if written in Esperanto. (just as for chess players: at level 8 they are merely wood-pushers). About Noam read esperanto is not a language and wikipedia. I prefer the other Jew. Edited by remush on 23 November 2007 at 4:41am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Art07 Groupie Russian Federation Joined 6216 days ago 61 posts - 64 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 179 of 194 23 November 2007 at 4:39am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
As I said I don't criticize Esperanto as a language for hobbists. It's a right of every man to do what he/she likes in his/her free time. I critisize the Esperanto movement when it goes to politics. In my country in April 2007 it tried to impose the compulsory teaching of Esperanto in all the schools of Russia. And now we go to numbers of 400 Russian Esperantists who tried to impose their hobby on 140mln Russians. How do you call this? I call it a destructive practice. Edited by Art07 on 23 November 2007 at 4:41am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Sprachprofi Nonaglot Senior Member Germany learnlangs.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6472 days ago 2608 posts - 4866 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Esperanto, Greek, Mandarin, Latin, Dutch, Italian Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swahili, Indonesian, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Portuguese | Message 180 of 194 23 November 2007 at 4:45am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Look around a bit and you'll find that the world isn't made of just numbers.
Many more people contribute, but without signing up. Since Wikipedia doesn't and CAN'T keep statistics on people's origin, the only way he'd know is if he knew every single Wikipedia contributor personally - and contrarily to what you suggest, the Esperanto movement isn't small enough for that.
Read closely. I am talking NON-NATIVE speakers. Statistics of Russian are made mainly based on how many people live in Russian-speaking countries. There's no way of counting the actual foreign-language speakers of a language.
The VAST MAJORITY of Esperanto speakers aren't part of their national organization, because being part of such an organization means you pay high fees and get boring (imho) mailings in exchange, and maybe a discount on the national meet-ups. Some Esperanto speakers visit local clubs, some are members only in international organizations, a lot are in neither, because, as I said, there is hardly a reason to join unless if you want to donate money. I spoke Esperanto for 5 years before I joined any organization, and when I joined it was only because it was same price to participate in IS or to participate in IS and get membership. I know a lot of people like me, who like to just use the language. This includes many people who speak Esperanto very well, in fact the national organization are best for beginners, because beginners may turn to the organizations to help them learn Esperanto or to make Esperanto contacts, whereas fluent speakers don't need that crutch. As for administrations: for example the board of the World Esperanto Youth organization currently has 4 elected members: 1 from the USA, 1 from Bosnia, 1 from Italy and 1 from Benin. But of course organizations represent those that choose to participate in the elections. Edited by Sprachprofi on 23 November 2007 at 4:51am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Art07 Groupie Russian Federation Joined 6216 days ago 61 posts - 64 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 181 of 194 23 November 2007 at 4:50am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Sprachprofi,
I gave you number, you once again gave me no numbers, only excuses. I gave you _valid_ lowest estimates of Russian speakers and Russian Esperantists. You gave once again excuses trying to say that somehow my numbers aren't correct and once again you gave me your personal experience to drive off the topic. I asked only for plain numbers and how they were obtained, the same thing I did for alexa, for the numbre of russian speaker, for the number of russian esperantists. Why instead of numbers you have excuses and peronal stories that are only relevant to you? I think for those guys who acctually _are thinking_ and don't buy words, it is clear what Esperanto as a movement is. Edited by Art07 on 23 November 2007 at 4:55am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Sprachprofi Nonaglot Senior Member Germany learnlangs.comRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6472 days ago 2608 posts - 4866 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Esperanto, Greek, Mandarin, Latin, Dutch, Italian Studies: Spanish, Arabic (Written), Swahili, Indonesian, Japanese, Modern Hebrew, Portuguese | Message 182 of 194 23 November 2007 at 5:03am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Because there are no valid statistics on an international phenomenon like Esperanto, as you well know. You either have to resort to irrelevant statistics like the Alexa one or you don't have any at all. Unlike you, I prefer not to quote irrelevant statistics that would mislead people.
Go ahead and believe that Esperanto is weak in Russia, so that you can calm your irrational fear of a movement that is peaceful to its core. Any time spent on Esperanto websites or traveling through Russia with Pasporta Servo will convince the others otherwise. And this is all I'm going to say on the matter. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Art07 Groupie Russian Federation Joined 6216 days ago 61 posts - 64 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 183 of 194 23 November 2007 at 5:10am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Sprachprofi,
do you know that the difference between science and religion is that science relies on facts and numbers, but relegion relies on revelations and personal experiences. As I can see you are all about emotions. For example, how my statistics on Russian Esperantists are irrelevant if I got it from the official website of Russian Eseprantists? How my low estimate for Russian speakers are irrelevant? How Alexa is irrelevant if at the Alexa website there is detailed description on how the obtained the stat? And if you are saying "there are no valid statistics on an international phenomenon like Esperanto" then how people should descide that Esperanto ideas, and what is more important Esperanto claims, are valid?! Edited by Art07 on 23 November 2007 at 5:13am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| remush Tetraglot Groupie Belgium remush.beRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6270 days ago 79 posts - 94 votes Speaks: French*, Esperanto, English, Dutch Studies: German, Polish | Message 184 of 194 23 November 2007 at 8:14am | IP Logged | |||||||||||
It would be much cheaper to recommend Esperanto than to switch riding from left to right. I understand that there are situations which require some coordination. It is useless for Russian to lose 6 months of their precious time to reach level 7, if Chinese do not do the same. Why don't you try and coordinate with them? That's the emerging economy and you are closer. All what Esperantists can do is: prove that Esperanto is working perfectly well as second language. Nobody is forced to learn Esperanto to level 6. Edited by remush on 23 November 2007 at 8:18am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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