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PMs TAC 2015 crazy? French course mission | ||
Tags: TellMeMore | Fluenz | Linguaphone | Flash cards | Michel Thomas | Self-Study | Spaced Repetition (SRS) | Diploma/Certificate | Study Plan | Fluency | Dutch | Pimsleur | FSI | Total Annihilation Challenge (TAC) | Assimil | French | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| PeterMollenburg Senior Member AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5479 days ago 821 posts - 1273 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: FrenchB1 | Message 225 of 451 10 November 2014 at 8:26am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Tnx for the congrats Mohave. As for Pimsleur IV I will let you know :) And FIA I totally recommend all components of the course (I use video, audio, textbook, workbook and study guide). The more you use the more fullfilling the experience, the more well rounded it is, the more you feel you're accomplishing as you go along. I must say tho, that if you've done the video and textbook, and used the workbook? then audio on it's own would be a little one dimensional and dry but still worth it in my opinion. I guess I feel the course works best with everything running smoothly together. Perhaps you could use the audio on commutes? Depends if you don't mind reviewing the grammar together with the workbook. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7208 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 226 of 451 10 November 2014 at 10:52am | IP Logged | ||||||||
I'm finding the French In Action audio helpful on commutes and other odd moments where I can't use the book or watch the video. It's helpful to have the workbook handy while doing the audio, because some of the audio refers to things in the workbook, such as pictures. A lot of it though can be used in one way or another away from the workbook. I do it both ways. The Mise en Ouvre is meant to be done away from the other components of the book, but other components can be as well. For example, a fill in the blank exercise can become a "repeat the audio in the blank provided" exercise. Also, not reading along in the workbook tunes up the ears when the instruction is in French. Lately, I've been going through the slightly more challenging audio about five times. With the workbook, first listen without looking. Trying to respond to oral exercises, etc. Then I do it again trying for more fluency. Then a third time looking at the workbook to again associate the written word with the sound. Later, and this can be a week or two, I listen and speak in the car. Sometimes just repeating or shadowing, responding, when that's the sort of drill. This is also good for review. Then there is a "truncate silence" track on my smartphone, where I mostly try to shadow the audio, but have also used for quick responses. This has been about 3 weeks behind the original pass. I agree with Peter. All the components build on one another, and more time with the course makes the experience richer. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Mohave Senior Member United States justpaste.it/Mohave1 Joined 4010 days ago 291 posts - 444 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 227 of 451 10 November 2014 at 1:35pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
PM and Luke, thank you so much for your detailed responses! I think I am going to have to see if I can find an inexpensive, used audio for FIA. This sounds like exactly the type of exercises I need. Thanks again! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| PeterMollenburg Senior Member AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5479 days ago 821 posts - 1273 votes Speaks: English* Studies: FrenchB1 | Message 228 of 451 02 December 2014 at 8:39am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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ok, 2nd try... I just spent half an hour adding up figures and typing away only to lose it! Dammit!
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------- November study breakdown Coursework 20hrs,45min Audio only 16hrs,22min Reading 8hrs,37min (of which 92 pages read for SC) Flashcards 7hrs,18min Watching 6hrs,9min (of which 241min for SC) November total 58hrs,21min November average 1hrs,56min TOTAL FOR YEAR SO FAR 852hrs,19min CURRENT AVG PER DAY OVER THE YEAR 2hrs,33min ------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------- Materials I so want to write 'matériaux'... Anyway... FIA: Leçon 7 Assimil NFWE: 81 (reviewing all lessons, currently on 68, making my way back to 81 and beyond) Vivre sans Vaccins (reading) I've essentially read this book 4 times I worked out, having read every page 4 times (twice for each page, at end of chapter go back and do again twice). I'm now back at the start of the book and looking to do the same again. Thoughts... A good month. Better than October at least. My best month was January (full of enthusiasm) in which I did 133hrs. May was 2nd best at 88hrs. I'm aiming for somewhere between those two for December. If I manage that I'll be just shy of the 1000hrs for the year, which is okay, it gives me something to aim for next year. Actually averaging 3 hrs a day next year would be nice - so 1095hrs of French is my aim next year. I shouldn't have to work any harder, just be that little more consistent and not lose the plot. This year so far has been a great success in that I haven't lost the plot completely and dropped French for weeks on end or months or years like I used to do, and have studied nearly every single day... only missing prob a handful of days in which I did no French at all. However I did lose the plot in smaller ways and had days I just wanted to rebel against myself and those days often involved just audio during commutes or just a bit of reading or watching. I'm so pleased with myself this year that next year i'm very eager to do what i've just stated. On another note, after doing so much study I thought I'd be a lot better than what I am in terms of language skill. Mind you I have come a long way, I just underestimated the effort it takes and the time it takes. Not to mention my obsessive nature in completing courses, multiple courses on the same language level in fact before moving on. This means I'm inevitably going to take longer than I should to reach my goal than perhaps using other methods, but I've found it's working for me and I enjoy it, and I'm keen to work through my accumulated courses. Fry on, throw a crapsteak at a burger-filed wall, know what I'm sayin? 's not like there's 22 goats in my face or nothin' for real speak The honorable rediculous Peter Mollenburg, continuing the mission of worthlessness that is just so important 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4912 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 229 of 451 02 December 2014 at 1:15pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Mmmmm.... crapsteak......
You have done a ton of work, and like you say, probably not in the most "efficient" way in terms of results per hour spent. But sticking with it is a lot more important that being efficient, so I have to say, rock on dude. There are other advantages to your "inefficient" ways of working: I am convinced that slow learning is deep learning. If your goal was to speak 10+ languages then your method probably need some adjustment. But since your goal is to learn a few languages really well (right?) then you seem to be on the right track. I hate to post corrections to your writing, but I think the word you were looking for was "misunderestimated". Definitely.... 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Mohave Senior Member United States justpaste.it/Mohave1 Joined 4010 days ago 291 posts - 444 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 230 of 451 02 December 2014 at 5:09pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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It's interesting as I also thought with all the hours of studying that I have put in, my French would be better
too! I figured I started off the year a solid A2, maybe with some skills approaching B1. Silly me thought I would be at B2 by now!!! ;). I'm redefining my measures of success now.... I try to do something in French daily - making it a habit, and I try to focus on the skill increases I have seen, and where I want future skill increases to be rather than focusing on A2, B1, and B2. This intermediate stage can be a zapper on motivation. However, at least my skill set is now at a level where I can have FUN by watching movies and reading most things, albeit slowly. My time with this "hobby/lifestyle" shows me that consistency and slow and steady is the way to go. So, the fact that you are consistent, you WILL reach your goal, it just may take a little more time than expected, but just have FUN on the journey! Edited by Mohave on 02 December 2014 at 5:09pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| PeterMollenburg Senior Member AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5479 days ago 821 posts - 1273 votes Speaks: English* Studies: FrenchB1 | Message 231 of 451 03 December 2014 at 6:23am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Thanks Jeffers, Should the appropriate French translation of misunderestimated be: mal estimé(e)? Yeah I tend to agree with your positive comments, naturally. It sounds good your theory on deep learning. I'll go with that. Ironically I did originally want to become a polyglot, my ego hand grandiose ideas of multiple languages wowing people and so on, and hey perhaps that might, maybe, perhaps, peut-être, on va voir, faut voir, ça dépend, on ne sait jamais, happen. But if it doesn't i'm not overly fussed, but I am likely to punish all the little people with a reign of terror as PM. Thing is I realised the more I learned the more I didn't know and the longer it was going to take to get to where I wanted to get- very very confdent and capable in the language of C1/C2 standard or even native-like proficiency, and for that, having procrastinated for so many years and having not realised the work needed to be carried out = less languages to that level to be attained if any (if i didn't stop piss-farting around as we like to say in Australia). I'll keep soldiering on with it and if I make it only to French in that level I think i'd still be satisfied, but I would like to attain that level in say 3 other languages, but if turns out it's to the detriment of having some kind of a life then that number will be reduced. We'll just see where my efforts get me, how much time allows, how my study methods evolve and so on, bla bla black sheep But thanks again Jeffers for agreeing i'm the best French learner ever. I expect to be receiving my award in the mail in the coming weeks - a house valued at 480,000 euros in France and all my bills paid for the rest of my life along with holidays whenever I like. Pfft i'm not materialistic, can't help it if I won all that stuf, peace up 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| PeterMollenburg Senior Member AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5479 days ago 821 posts - 1273 votes Speaks: English* Studies: FrenchB1 | Message 232 of 451 03 December 2014 at 6:46am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Very true indeed Mohave, Slow and steady consistent work. I think it seems to pay off for anything. Although if you're competing in some kind of racing like running, cycling whatever then minus the 'slow' from that statement. I agree Consistent continuous effort is the key. As for enjoying materials... I'm finding I'm reading a LOT of things on the net lately usually related to alternative health, nutrition and what shouldn't be termed conspiracies, but by default are due the system of control we seem to be living under. Anyway these things i'm finding i'm reading more and more in French without much of an issue and like you, enjoying them. It's a shame I can't count this stuff (like watching the French news) for the SC as I'm certainly doing more reading and watching than what is evident in my 'standing' if you want to call it that. As for the watching, as I'm not watching that much I'm prob not enjoying that side of things as much as yourself by the sound of it, but i'm not concerned as I will get to that point. It's really ironic I think that a lot of people have stated in my various readings of blogs, articles and so on that French is harder than ppl generally rate it according to the FSI grouping of difficulty of languages for English speakers. And a number of ppl stated on this forum that their French listening didn't improve a great deal despite an SC with a lot of watching (last SC). Which makes me realise let's not be so hard on ourselves, although it's very closely connected to English, French is NOT necessarily easy. Okay some points are seemingly easy but due to it's syllable division and phonetic system favouring vowels and vowel sounds and lack of individual stress on words, comprehension in this language is trickier than many give it credit for - and to add to that if you are like me and actually want to sound authentically French and I mean really authentic, then you will extend your learning time significantly by ensuring your pronunciation sounds just that - authentic. In my experience emulating authentic Spanish, German or Dutch sounds is nowhere near as time consuming in perfecting it. This of course may be purely subjective but I think there's a certain degree of objectivity in that statement. On another note... I think when you're not yet a polyglot and relatively new to attempting to reach a decent level of a chosen foreign language (B2-C2, native-like proficiency) then at some point you realise that all language programs (particularly newer ones as capitalism ups the ante on marketing) contain some degree of marketing (usually the less effective programs market their product in a more deceitful way) in the product that leads ppl to believe that ok if I'm sensible and don't believe the hype that one or 2 courses will get me to fluency then 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 will... which turns out to be marketing indoctrination - ie it's just not true. There's a lot more to learning a language than most courses care to point out - for good reason tho I think, aside from marketing hype, they don't won't to turn you off the beauty of learning a new language by telling you the truth of the effort required to reach such goals. So what about FSI estimates then again? Are they really that inaccurate or is it just French? My experience as you know contains an overwhelming reliance on courses. However I do get a general sense that if i put the same amount of effort into any one elses methods - Benny's immersion style, purely SC native materials, a more effective combination of all methods, I still struggle to believe I'd be at my goal even with all that, as French imo just seems to need extra time. I personally would not grade it among Spanish and Dutch, and Italian in terms of difficulty/hrs required to reach FSI's 'fluency' level, i'd at least group it with German - German trickier in terms of grammar, French for pronunciation, rhythmic stress, not overly tricky but sometimes messy grammatical rules and a massive amount of idioms. 2 formaldehyde-soaked French fries thanks... oh and one arsenic sprayed meat pattie contained within a bun of mineral robbing nutrients that shall raise my blood sugar like refined sugar. Ah... what nutritious goodness I say, because that's what TV told me 1 person has voted this message useful |
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