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When you meet target-language speakers... | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Cultural Experiences in Foreign Languages |  | |
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5534 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes  Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 9 of 22 25 November 2014 at 8:13pm | IP Logged | |||||
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In Montreal, I try to follow local customs for picking which languages to use. The people of Montreal have always been so unfailingly polite to me about these issues that I want to return the kindness by figuring out the local customs. In public places, this means defaulting to French (or using "Bonjour hello") unless I have evidence to the contrary.
In other situations, I rely on my unfair advantages: If somebody speaks French with my wife, then I assume that I'm supposed to use French, too. If I'm travelling by myself, then it depends on the context. In a French-speaking context, I'll prefer French. In an English-speaking context, well, it depends on whether people are bored and looking for something to chat about, and also how much I want to explain where I learned my French, etc. :-) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6584 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 10 of 22 27 November 2014 at 6:00pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I usually just go ahead and say a few things in the language if I'm good at it. I never speak a language unless I'm good at it. If they keep speaking whatever other boring language, I don't force it. It's evident whether they're excited or annoyed that I speak it. I don't usually make too much of an effort to speak with people by chance, because:
1: If I need speaking opportunities, I could use iTalki. 2: I've always found that speaking a language isn't a very effective way of learning it. It's good to get your fluidity up, but then you only need to speak fluidly if you, well, need to speak it. And if you need to speak it, you'll obviously get speaking practice and thus develop your fluidity. In practice, I get some speaking practice with Cantonese (because I often go to HK) and Mandarin (because Mandarin speakers are everywhere), but rarely if ever speak French, Spanish or Portuguese, since it's very rare to encounter people who speak these languages in Sweden/Norway. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Luso Hexaglot Senior Member Portugal Joined 6063 days ago 819 posts - 1812 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, French, EnglishC2, GermanB1, Italian, Spanish Studies: Sanskrit, Arabic (classical) | Message 11 of 22 27 November 2014 at 8:15pm | IP Logged | |||||
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It depends on the situation:
1. With languages I'm fluent in, I pick a moment to say something pertinent and articulate. If you're with French people and say "oui", they won't know whether you can speak their language or not, and are not able to decide whether to include you in the conversation. If you go and say instead "je vous conseille la morue, car c'est la spécialité de la maison", you have a conversation starter. 2. With languages I'm more or less good at, I do the same thing, but I also warn people about my limitations. I try to do that after a few exchanges (with German, for instance). When people know your knowledge has shortcomings, they usually cut you some slack. 3. With the ones I only know a little, I only use them if the knowledge of the language itself is the theme of the conversation. I've had some interesting exchanges (I wouldn't call them "conversations") with Arabs based on that assumption. Edited by Luso on 27 November 2014 at 8:15pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| garyb Triglot Senior Member ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5209 days ago 1468 posts - 2413 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, French Studies: Spanish | Message 12 of 22 28 November 2014 at 11:39am | IP Logged | |||||
I agree in principle, I prefer to only use a language socially if I'm good at it (or if not, at least better than they are at English!), but I find that it's not really that simple! Often I'm good at a language one day then awful at it the next day, and I don't really know how my ability will be at any given moment until I open my mouth. Other people who emphasise active skills tend to have similar experiences.
I don't need to speak fluidly, but I want to speak fluidly. I'm not criticising your argument, just saying that my situation is different; my main goal in learning languages is to speak them well. Things are trickier when I don't get regular opportunities to use the language but I would like to be able to use it well (fluidly) when I do get the opportunities! But I suppose that brings me to your point number 1: maybe I just need to put my money where my mouth is and set aside some time and cash for iTalki. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4624 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 13 of 22 28 November 2014 at 3:26pm | IP Logged | |||||
Absolutely. People all over the world do that to groups of native English speakers so as far as I'm concerned, it has to work both ways. 8 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Einarr Tetraglot Senior Member United Kingdom einarrslanguagelog.w Joined 4615 days ago 118 posts - 269 votes Speaks: English, Bulgarian*, French, Russian Studies: Swedish | Message 14 of 22 30 November 2014 at 11:00pm | IP Logged | |||||
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It so happened that just the other day I was having my lunch and overheard two
colleagues from another department that I don't know speaking in Russian. I was (obviously) eavesdropping and as it was a slightly delicate matter they were discussing I decided not to interrupt. Anyhow, my desire to finally have a chat in Russian (there aren't many around here) was bigger than myself and luckily as I was going out of the canteen one of the girls held the door for me, so I said "спасибо". She was first confused and surprised then very cheerful indeed and we had a lovely conversation and it turned out she's a language enthusiast too. Few days after I met her on another occasion and I just asked her "Как дела?" and after responding she said to her colleague: "See, he can speak my language" with a broad smile. Honestly it made my day, given that I always look down on my speaking abilities in Russian. Generally I never miss a chance to have even a basic conversation in a language that I've studied or study. It's amazing how a simple "ευχαριστο" can make a person from sour to smiling in second as it once happened to me. :) 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| 1e4e6 Octoglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4292 days ago 1013 posts - 1588 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan | Message 15 of 22 01 December 2014 at 12:01am | IP Logged | |||||
This is the theory, and I agree heartily herewith, but in practise it almost never happens, as it usually works in one way; people approach or switch to English and if an Anglophone does the inverse, they often give the Anglophone either no chance or "conditional chance" if they are advanced enough. However, Anglophones are approached and the non-native Anglophone expects and usually gets his or her wish to continue in English even if their skill level is A0.1-A1 and take about 15 seconds to complete a simple sentence. Also the added "open secret" or "fact" that permeates non-native Anglophones that they think that Anglophones simply can speak no foreign languages, so a struggling A1 English speaker can get practise with all of the Anglophones, and the Anglohpones have no choice but to accept this. This at least has been my general experience of over a decade of language learning: "Oh you are an English speaker/from Britain/USA/Western Canada/Australia/New Zealand? Let me speak some English with you, not like you know anything else anyway..." It is almost always a pain in the arse for Anglophones. However, in the Hispanophone world, or meeting Hispanophones is always easy, they never second-guess nor switch, not because I studied their language to at least C1 for 11 years, but because the general level of English is so piss poor (save some exceptions for example those who are exposed to English in school more than other Hispanophone areas, such as in Buenos Aires, Puerto Rico, or Andalucía) that continuing in Spanish is basically the only choice, or at least is much more comodable for them than English. Even in the UK, meeting Spanish and Argentinians in Manchester, Newcastle, Glasgow, Liverpool, they have always been happy I switch into Spanish with them. Not many natives of other languages are so forgiving in this respect towards Anglophones. Even here in San Francisco, I would say 100% of the time native Hispanophones (of which they are much more than in the UK) are happy to speak in Spanish with me, despite my having an uncommon accent for the region (Peninsular and sometimes practise an Argentinian one). To resume, I think that the best target languages speakers with whom to approach for speaking are those whose English is absolutely horrible or A1 at most, so that there is no "temptation". Edited by 1e4e6 on 01 December 2014 at 12:32am 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4951 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 16 of 22 01 December 2014 at 5:16am | IP Logged | |||||
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I don't know, I have never had Germans or French speakers switch on me due to LACK of understanding my speech. Was my language level THAT high (compared to even many colleagues here at HTLAL, which I am sure are as smart and dedicated as I am), when I finally decided starting to speak? (which was well into year 2 of my learning the languages.)
Occasionally I have had a German speaker continue in English after I began speaking German, and maybe a handful of times a French person or Quebecois, but they never told me to stop replying in their mother language, and clearly understood me since replying the pertinent response even in English requires they had understood my statement in the other language. I think my French and German can use a lot of improvement, but trying very hard not to brag, I have noticed after about 5 years in this life-changing adventure that my goals and my language ability ratings are 90% much more exigent than the average folk out there. In other words, if I see myself as needing improvement in X language, almost all other non-native speakers that CONSIDER THEMSELVES SPEAKERS (and indeed can participate in conversation groups), tell me invariably that I'm more advanced than they are and that my language skills really don't need much improvement at all. This is a typical example of the "the more you learn, the less you know" effect. Anyway, to answer curtly, I switch ALMOST immediately into German, French, and Portuguese where I work, by simply replying or making a comment in the target language. Surprise and sometimes shock usually ensue, followed by the obligatory 5 statements: 1. Oh, you speak _____! 2. It is very good! 3. Where did you live in ______? 4. How di you learn then? 5. Where are you from? Outside of work, I rarely talk to strangers in the street, so I really have no particular strategy. However, if tourists stop me for information or direction, and usually I can guess through a combination of foreign English accent / clothing / and facial features where they are from, I respond in their language... followed by the obligatory 5 statements! 1 person has voted this message useful |
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