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Accent reduction | ||
Tags: Accent | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4940 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes  Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 1 of 11 22 March 2014 at 3:44am | IP Logged | ||
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First off, I have been told that I have a good pronunciation in my TLs, to the point that most people ask how long did I stay in their countries (never lived in any country where my TLs are spoken). But I do have an accent.
I don't know why exactly, but I feel my accent has gotten worse in recent times. But I think it may be a trick of my ears: maybe they are now so fine tuned to the languages (I can now discern several accents in each one), that I am simply noticing shortcomings in my pronunciation that I had not noticed before. Is this plausible or are there cases where peoples' pronunciation gets worse as their fluency advances? (maybe because they talk faster and use more difficult words) Beyond the above, I would like to know if anyone has experience in DIY accent reduction: that is, any techniques, ready-made courses, etc, in this aspect. My other question would be: if I were to seek out materials for accent reduction, I would assume that by their nature these materials are language specific to the mother language of the speaker trying to reduce this accent in the TL? Are there accent improvement courses that are independent of the user's native language? Obviously, my interest is for German, French, and Portuguese. Any tips, experiences, and anecdotes welcome! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7196 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 2 of 11 22 March 2014 at 9:11am | IP Logged | ||
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For English Speakers seeking French, there is
FSI French Phonology. There is also the Pronounce It Perfectly series. Edited by luke on 22 March 2014 at 9:11am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5325 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 3 of 11 22 March 2014 at 9:28am | IP Logged | ||
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I do not think I have ever come across any learner whose accent becomes worse as he comes closer to
fluency, so I think your explanation about your ear being more fine tuned now, sounds plausible. Usually I have an anecdote about everything under the sun (comes with an advanced age :-) but I am turning up blank here. All I can do is to wish you luck, and express my satisfaction that there are more people out there who are as fanatic about pronunciation as I am. And if you like we could get in touch over Skype and I can tell you whether you do indeed have an accent in French. Perhaps you are just being too self- critical. I am not really qualified to judge your German and Portuguese, but I used to be a French teacher, and my French is still pretty strong, so I would feel confident enough to listen to your French. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| napoleon Tetraglot Senior Member India Joined 5007 days ago 543 posts - 874 votes Speaks: Bengali*, English, Hindi, Urdu Studies: French, Arabic (Written) | Message 4 of 11 22 March 2014 at 9:52am | IP Logged | ||
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You're in luck! :-)
As luke already mentioned, FSI French Phonology is an excellent introduction to French pronunciation. It is not an easy course. But it is very good. (It teaches you the Parisian accent) FSI has Programmed Introduction courses for German and Portuguese as well. The best thing is, they won't cost you a dime! :-) Happy studying! 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5253 days ago 2241 posts - 6731 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 5 of 11 22 March 2014 at 12:43pm | IP Logged | ||
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Outcast, for Portuguese, take a look at Benny's post at Fi3M How to Speak Portuguese as if you were from Rio. He went on a "mission" to convince Cariocas he was a native for at least a minute and managed to pull off 30 seconds successfully.
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| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4940 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 6 of 11 22 March 2014 at 2:38pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thank you to all of you, very good posts from every single one of you.
I may try Skyping Solfrid :o I love phonetics too, and as I mentioned one time in the past, I enjoy the satisfaction of reproducing properly a foreign sound (which then would not be foreign anymore). I have no interest in fooling natives though, I just want to know that I tried my best to polish all aspects of my language learning. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4819 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 7 of 11 22 March 2014 at 6:50pm | IP Logged | ||
I think you are wise. Trying to fool natives seems a particularly pointless aim. But on the other hand, one would like natives to find listening to oneself a pleasure, and not a burden. A slight accent can often be pleasant, and adds character, but over a certain degree, it can become a burden to listen to for any length of time, so a certain amount of work on accent reduction, without becoming obsessional, is probably worth the effort. My instinctive feeling is that learning to become a really good listener is the key. Once we think we know how a language is pronounced, we tend to make assumptions, and perhaps do not listen as well as we should. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5372 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 8 of 11 24 March 2014 at 3:09pm | IP Logged | ||
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I’ve never heard of anyone’s accent getting worse as fluency progresses. There is certainly the possibility that you are getting more critical as your listening abilities progress and that your understanding of what you are targeting improves over time. It's common to fix something, only to start noticing another issue.
Accent reduction is more of an art than a science. There's so much bogus and useless advice out there. I encourage to question any advice you get on this topic – including mine. You can read all the technical literature you want, nothing just happens on its own. You have to become your own critic by learning to identify your own mistakes and fix them. No one can reposition your tongue, control your nasal opening, your vocal chords, etc., for you. In fact, learning to do this in another language is probably not possible until you have a excellent understanding of how you pronounce your first language. Getting a language coach is a great idea, but few people have the skills to identify and explain accent problems. If you find one, don’t forget that the goal is to learn to become your own critic. This person should help you find and fix your own issues. The best material would obviously be language-specific. But in my experience, few people can read an explanation and turn it into a permanent change to their pronunciation. It would be like reading about how to ride a bike or hit a ball, even if the information was geared towards people with your specific physical characteristics. With the difference that pronouncing is like hitting a ball blind-folded: you get no immediate feedback -- unless you learn to feel it yourself. I am currently teaching a pronunciation class to a group of Japanese students. While I didn’t design the lesson plan, I do put in my two cents and we try to deal with Japanese-specific issues. It’s impressive how the speakers of a language all have more or less the exact same issues. Very few issues are speaker-specific. I suppose I could potentially act as a language coach for French if you are interested. While I don't speak European French, I can definitely pick up non-native traits. Edited by Arekkusu on 24 March 2014 at 3:16pm 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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