Overcoming the plateau (Advice Center) Language Learning Forum

Overcoming the plateau
Tags: Learning Experience \| Spanish
Share with: Delicious Digg reddit Facebook StumbleUpon
Language Learning Forum : Advice Center

25 messages over 4 pages: 1 2 3 4 Next >>

garyb
Triglot
Senior Member
ScotlandRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 5198 days ago
1468 posts - 2413 votes

Speaks: English*, Italian, French
Studies: Spanish

Message 9 of 25

30 January 2014 at 5:14pm | IP Logged

I'd disagree with the idea of stopping studying and using the language like a native. I tried that for a while and I just ended up on a big plateau which I only got out of by adding proper studying back into my routine. I find that a certain amount of focused work as well as lots of exposure and practice is needed to keep things moving along. Then again that was just my situation, and one could just as easily end up on a plateau for the opposite reason, too much study but not enough "real" usage. More generally I'd say that my experience is that a plateau happens when there's not enough of something in whatever you're doing. Cavesa's post is good as it covers all the main things that might be lacking.

Edited by garyb on 30 January 2014 at 5:16pm
8 persons have voted this message useful

patrickwilken
Senior Member
Germany
radiant-flux.net
Joined 4524 days ago
1546 posts - 3200 votes

Studies: German

Message 10 of 25

30 January 2014 at 6:20pm | IP Logged

garyb wrote:

Of course, everyone is different, but I think in general trying to do everything is playing it a bit safe once you get to B2 and above. Yes. You can do everything, but do you really want to do that for ever? Would you continue to spend time doing significant hours of grammar book study every week once you get to B2 or even C1? I can see how doing short bursts of this might be useful, but given you are living outside the country and you might only be studying for (?) two hours a day max, then I would suggest spending that precious time really trying to get your brain around the language by actually "studying the real language" not spending half your time reading meta-theoretical-descriptions of it.

But that's just me...
7 persons have voted this message useful

jhaberstro
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4384 days ago
112 posts - 154 votes

Speaks: English*
Studies: French, Portuguese

Message 11 of 25

30 January 2014 at 9:31pm | IP Logged

garyb wrote:

I'd disagree with the idea of stopping studying and using the language like a native. I tried that for
a while and I just ended up on a big plateau which I only got out of by adding proper studying back into my routine.
I find that a certain amount of focused work as well as lots of exposure and practice is needed to keep things
moving along. Then again that was just my situation, and one could just as easily end up on a plateau for the
opposite reason, too much study but not enough "real" usage. More generally I'd say that my experience is that a
plateau happens when there's not enough of something in whatever you're doing. Cavesa's post is good as it
covers all the main things that might be lacking.

What type of studying did you add back? At a certain level it becomes hard to know what to study.
1 person has voted this message useful

iguanamon
Pentaglot
Senior Member
Virgin Islands
Speaks: Ladino
Joined 5253 days ago
2241 posts - 6731 votes

Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French)

Message 12 of 25

30 January 2014 at 9:49pm | IP Logged

Studying at an advanced level for me involves mostly a good grammar book and a monolingual dictionary. I use them to solve problems that I'm having with the language I'm seeing, hearing and speaking rather than teaching me. I also follow TL English-learning sites on twitter for tips. Is this "study"? Is working with a tutor at this level "study"? I guess it depends on your perspective.

The intermediate plateau trap often comes about because learners are accustomed to having the course there to guide them. They are most often not accustomed to "working without a net" because the course does everything for them. Maybe they've worked with some native materials before but the percentage is usually heavily skewed towards instructional resources. When working with native materials- reading, listening, speaking, at this stage there are few formal study materials out there that can guide and hold the learner's hand. This is where a good, thorough grammar book (that many of us have been avoiding) comes in very handy. This is also where a skype tutor or good language exchange partner can be most useful. More courses are just not sufficient to get over the hump, in my opinion.

4 persons have voted this message useful

Cavesa
Triglot
Senior Member
Czech Republic
Joined 5000 days ago
3277 posts - 6779 votes

Speaks: Czech*, French^C2, English^C1
Studies: Spanish, German, Italian

Message 13 of 25

30 January 2014 at 10:26pm | IP Logged

I totally agree with Garyb. In order to keep moving forward, I need both. Immersion with practice AND active studying.

However, that doesn't have to be a course, I agree with iguanamon. However, when there is a good quality advanced course, which isn't that common, it is a good thing to use. But you can't be dependent on it as in the earlier stages, it won't be enough anymore, it won't even the natural central structure leading to progress anymore.
2 persons have voted this message useful

patrickwilken
Senior Member
Germany
radiant-flux.net
Joined 4524 days ago
1546 posts - 3200 votes

Studies: German

Message 14 of 25

31 January 2014 at 12:30am | IP Logged

iguanamon wrote:

I think the difference is in the earlier stages of learning you are mostly studying the language at one step removed, with occasional forays into the real thing; latter things switch around and you are studying the language by living in it (reading/writing/speaking/listening) with occasional steps back to studying the language at a distance.

I found the switch very liberating when it happened for me in German. I do think if you don't make the switch at some point you will hit a plateau in your learning, and if I had forced myself to make the switch earlier my German would now be more advanced than it is.

But it's really a question of emphasis, not absolutes. And of course everyone has different learning styles.

Edited by patrickwilken on 31 January 2014 at 12:33am
3 persons have voted this message useful

theoanderson3
Diglot
Newbie
United States
Joined 3943 days ago
13 posts - 15 votes
Speaks: English*, Spanish

Message 15 of 25

31 January 2014 at 2:09am | IP Logged

what do you mean about the monolinguo dictionary?

Cavesa wrote:

Hi, welcome to the forums.

I think I know this kind of plateau, even though I've met it in French. Just a few things that I found helpful in such
a situation:

-read a lot.
Various things. Good quality newspapers (especially the comments sections and other longer pieces, not just the
short news), books (from classics to the teenage aimed novels using contemporary colloquial language), non
fiction you are interested in. It's great not only for vocabulary. You will develop similar sense for what is correct
as the one in your native language over time.

-keep listening.
If what you are listening now is too easy, raise the bar. Get talkshows, listen to comedians, video blogs, tv series
with more difficult language and so on. You have the best resource at hand, the natives (you're a lucky one :-) ).
But you can supplement them in the moments they aren't with you or when you need a change.

-5000 words, that isn't that much.
It sounds like a lot and most learner aimed sources will teach something like 4000 or 5000 by the time they leave
you on your own (usually B1). But the reality is different. You need more vocabulary, natives have several times
more. You need to expand your active vocabulary in areas not covered enough by textbooks and so on. ANKI is
great but you need to feed it from somewhere. For example, get a huge monolingual dictionary (there is a free
digital one from Academia Real for exemple but it's easier to use paper for this, in my opinion) and go through it,
adding what you find useful to anki. You can always find translation online, should you need it.

-Get all your gaps in the grammar covered.
Many people underestimate grammar. It is now popular to believe that people have trouble speaking because
they learn grammar too much. The opposite is true. Get a lot of input (again, books are great and so are any
audio sources) and go through a high quality grammar, perhaps with exercises. Catch all the small bugs that
prevent you from speaking or make you speak worse than is your potential. Grammar has no right to make you
stumble ;-) (What grammar books have you got, btw?)

-Write.
That is an active skill as well and it shares a lot with the speaking skill. You need to formulate thoughts, think in
the language and so on. But you have the luxury of time, you can see your mistakes a few hours later or have the
thing corrected (for example on italki.com). And you can easily find the missing pieces. Write something (a diary,
reports on movies you've seen, letters to an imaginary friend or whatever) and make notes aside everytime you
find a gap. Every time you are unsure which tense to use, when you don't know a word you obviously need, when
you don't know the proper preposition and so on. It's a great personalized guide to your weaknesses that need to
be treated.

-Speak.
With natives, with yourself, with a cat. The more practice you get, the better for you.

1 person has voted this message useful

Cavesa
Triglot
Senior Member
Czech Republic
Joined 5000 days ago
3277 posts - 6779 votes

Speaks: Czech*, French^C2, English^C1
Studies: Spanish, German, Italian

Message 16 of 25

31 January 2014 at 3:15am | IP Logged

A dictionary with explanations, not translation. There may be example sentences bt not all the dictionaries make them a priority. All the content is in the target language, therefore it is monolingual. Here's an online example: http://dictionary.cambridge.org/

1 person has voted this message useful

This discussion contains 25 messages over 4 pages: << Prev 1 2 3 4 Next >>

Printable version

You cannot post new topics in this forum - You cannot reply to topics in this forum - You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum - You cannot create polls in this forum - You cannot vote in polls in this forum

This page was generated in 3.2969 seconds.