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English: What to do next? | ||
Tags: Advanced Level | English | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
| Melya68 Diglot Senior Member France Joined 4282 days ago 109 posts - 126 votes  Speaks: French*, English | Message 1 of 25 04 February 2014 at 1:20am | IP Logged | ||
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I finally have a (mostly passive) vocabulary of 21,000 words in English.
I'm a C1 in all skills, and closer to C2 in grammar according to tests I took. Young native speakers (gifted 12-year-old preteens and "average" 15-year-old teenagers) know 21,000 words. Given that I never had the chance to travel to an English-speaking country for more than a weekend, I'm pretty happy with my progress even if it took me a long time to get there. Could someone recommend good material for improving my reading and listening skills? I don't use Anki or Memrise (I prefer paper flashcards and currently have wrist tendonitis). I'm okay with using textbooks. Listening: That's a tough one. I can understand most podcasts almost perfectly, but still struggle with a lot of TV shows. I'm not going to lie, I'm somewhat upset about this. I've listened to/watched plenty of English shows/podcasts/books over the past few years, but it seems that aiming for even 90% comprehension is a bit optimistic. Reading: At that point, reading most non-fiction books is a breeze for me. However, fiction is another story. I don't know, maybe I'm just not used to fiction. The thing is, finding good books to read isn't easy. I can read most newspapers with some difficulty. I find most books aimed at teens aged 12-16 to be quite challenging (Alex Rider, Artemis Fowl and CHERUB come to mind). However, I read Alex Rider in French a long time ago, and I liked it. Then again, I was 10 years younger. That being said, I still enjoy spy stories and mysteries. I've recently started watching the English dub of Case Closed and I really enjoy it, even if I don't understand all of the dialog. Any tips? (Also, I've decided against learning another language for now. I feel like I finally have one proper second language under my belt, and I want to nurture it. Last year, I briefly studied Chinese. While I enjoyed the experience, I had decided beforehand that I would quit Chinese a few weeks later, which I did. I learned over 50 characters and their pronunciation/tones and had a lot of fun, but English beckoned.) Edited by Melya68 on 04 February 2014 at 3:28am 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5000 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 2 of 25 04 February 2014 at 3:22am | IP Logged | ||
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This is a great example of how different learners can be. You and me are the exact opposites in some of the areas that are easy vs difficult for us, probably due to different approach. So I hope my bits of advice might help you.
1. Listening How much do you listen to the tv shows? Which ones are you interested in? . What moved me a few levels up really fast were large amounts of the video. Longer sessions. I think the listening comprehension (especially at this point) is an exception to the rule that a small piece every day is better than large chunk once a week. Get some free afternoons/evenings and watch four or five episodes in a row. Get immersed, that is the point. 20 minutes everyday are worse at the beginning than a few long sessions during two or three weeks, from my experience. Nice series to stast with: British English: Doctor Who. The language there is beautiful and it is easier than some other shows like Sherlock or the Red Dwarf. And it is long, which is a plus. American English: Good starting points may be Friends, Stargate, Once upon a Time or many others. Even one season can make a huge difference and get you ready for something more difficult. Just follow your taste and have fun. Never force yourself to watch something you don't enjoy. 2. Reading Get books you enjoy. Fun will keep you going and amounts of consumed material should do the work. I'd recommend longer books, so that you don't have to switch to different authors so often. Some ideas on fiction that might suit you now: -Harry Potter. No comment needed, I believe. -The Southern Vampire Mysteries (True Blood by HBO is based on the series). Supernatural, romance, some humour, some blood, lighter reading. It's not too hard and it contains a lot of everyday language. And there are spy-like and mystery parts ;-) -the Hobbit and other Tolkien's stories, except the Lord of the Rings and the Silmarillion. He wrote the Hobbit and some others for children but with the intention not to dumb them down too much. It is not as everyday language as the example above, but it is enriching, not too hard, and the stories are charming for children and adults alike. The LotR and the Silmarillion wouldn't make a good start, in my opinion, because they are much harder. But it is worth it to get far enough to enjoy them :-) -The Eyes of the Dragon by Stephen King. A fairy tale by the best-selling horror author. It is awesome. I'd say it is noticeably easier than some of his other books and I found it amazing. Last but not least: Congratulations! You've obviously progressed greatly and it is surely time to use the knowledge for fun. While you're ok with using textbooks, I think they are not the tool to help you fulfill your next goals. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6588 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 3 of 25 04 February 2014 at 9:25am | IP Logged | ||
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Melya68 Diglot Senior Member France Joined 4282 days ago 109 posts - 126 votes Speaks: French*, English | Message 4 of 25 04 February 2014 at 6:23pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thank you for your advice Cavesa. I have already watched most of the TV shows you mentioned (but mostly with English subtitles, and sometimes with French subtitles).
I have to agree with Serpent when it comes to listening and reading. While I used to listen to English for hours at a time, I doubt that I'd be able to do this nowadays. I feel somewhat depressed about my English today. I used lyricstraining.com for a while yesterday and didn't get all the words right at the intermediate level. I think I should do a dictation daily, but it's a boring exercise. If I understand the script of a show almost perfectly but can't understand the words when they're spoken by the actors, it means that my listening is lagging behind. However, since most TV shows contain only the 10,000-15,000 most common words of the English language, one could argue that at this point, watching them is a waste of time. I have to decide whether I want to concentrate on improving my listening skills or my reading/vocabulary skills first. I haven't done much today because I don't know what to do. I'm still reading non-fiction books, which is good I guess, but not good enough. Sure, I could decide to bite the bullet and download an SRS, but it's never worked for me, and I'd need meaningful words to put in it. I find Doctor Who and OUAT a bit too disturbing for my taste (though I watched them when I was younger.) I might just give OUAT a second chance if they've toned down the violence and sadism a bit in the latest episodes. I've already watched Friends once and caught lots of reruns too. I was in the process of re-watching all of the episodes, but I got bored. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Heriotza Groupie Dominican Republic Joined 4671 days ago 48 posts - 71 votes Speaks: Spanish* | Message 5 of 25 04 February 2014 at 7:49pm | IP Logged | ||
I think there should be something that is not working properly with your undertanding of English phonology, since your problem is being unable to undertand words you already know when they are spoken in a natural way and at a natural speed. I suggest you to focus on improving your phonological awareness and English pronunciation by following an accent reduction course. That will help you a lot when it comes to deciphering fast-paced and slurred speech, because it will teach how to listen like native speakers do. Edited by Heriotza on 04 February 2014 at 7:50pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4900 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 6 of 25 04 February 2014 at 9:08pm | IP Logged | ||
You clearly write well, better than most British teenagers anyway. So congratulations on that! I have no idea where you get your figures about how many words an average teenager knows, but I would have put it at around 15,000 for a gifted teenager. Nevertheless, 20,000 words is adequate for most purposes. As to what you should do next, I would argue the opposite point to you. Since your vocabulary is over 20,000, and yet you struggle to understand a TV show without subtitles, then listening comprehension is what you should be working on. There is no point in having the vocabulary of an educated 20 year old, if you can't understand what a 12 year old would find easy. So I agree with the suggestions of the others on this thread. Ditch the textbooks and vocabulary lists, and immerse yourself in listening, watching and reading. Obviously, if you want to improve your speaking, then you should see about crossing the channel from time to time, or take up a skype language exchange. Edited by Jeffers on 04 February 2014 at 9:10pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| prz_ Tetraglot Senior Member Poland last.fm/user/prz_rul Joined 4850 days ago 890 posts - 1190 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, Bulgarian, Croatian Studies: Slovenian, Macedonian, Persian, Russian, Turkish, Ukrainian, Dutch, Swedish, German, Italian, Armenian, Kurdish | Message 7 of 25 05 February 2014 at 1:28am | IP Logged | ||
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Well, I have pretty much the same, except for the fact, that my main problem is grammar.
(+ formal documents) Edited by prz_ on 05 February 2014 at 1:28am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Melya68 Diglot Senior Member France Joined 4282 days ago 109 posts - 126 votes Speaks: French*, English | Message 8 of 25 05 February 2014 at 1:48am | IP Logged | ||
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Thank you very much for your advice and kind words.
I decided against studying an accent reduction course because I know from experience that they don't work for me. I know English phonetics well, but I'm not used to fast speech. I think this is due to the fact that I just can't stand watching something without English subtitles. What if I miss a joke or an important part of the show because I turned the subtitles off? Sometimes I'm forced to watch shows with French subtitles on when English subtitles aren't available. While this is good translation practice, it drives me crazy. Here's what goes on in my head in this case: 1. Read the subtitles as fast as possible 1.1 while listening to the dialog 1.2 and double-checking if the French subtitles make sense after having heard part of the dialog spoken in English This is not my idea of "fun". I have done it in the past and I will do it again if I have no choice, but such an exercise is very taxing on the brain. Actually, I think that watching somewhat challenging/"refined" anime such as Case Closed is my best bet to improve my listening comprehension. Sadly, most episodes haven't been dubbed into English. So much for practicing listening comprehension past the 130th episode... I don't know if I'm willing to watch it subbed, and I certainly won't buy the manga. I started reading it in French and it's pretty boring if you ask me. The anime is somewhat more tame and many cases have been invented just for the anime so I think it's much more entertaining. I might also look into watching Fairy Tail again, but I find the dubbed version to be quite obnoxious. I read many volumes of the manga in French and the manga is much better. However, all the fan service that borders on ecchi and the overall silliness of the story got on my nerves pretty fast. I still have to figure out why One Piece is so "great", because I personally think it's stupid and childish. As for Naruto and Bleach, I haven't had the patience to check them out yet. I read most of Death Note but got bored at the end so I stopped. Edited by Melya68 on 05 February 2014 at 1:54am 1 person has voted this message useful |
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