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Will this work for Polish? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
| Lusan Diglot Newbie United States Joined 3933 days ago 35 posts - 53 votes  Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: Polish | Message 1 of 11 13 February 2014 at 9:27pm | IP Logged | |||||
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First post.
In 3 years, I plan to retire and, married to a pole, I'll be passing most Summers in Gdansk. So I decided to learned Polish; a thing that I tried to avoid as it were a plague for many years. I already speak Native English and Spanish. And yes, crazy, I want to learn Polish at that level, too. However, it seems that most people say that this is impossible. Me? Oh well, a target is a target is a target. If I do not make it, at least I should be able to reach B3 or C2, who knows? Since most people here love language learning, I would like to know if my short term strategy has any chance of success. 1. 600 hrs of language study by next summer. 2. RosettaStone Polish (1-3): 1 hour/day...until I finish it. I know. Many people here hate it. I already paid for it. I do not want to waste my money. Besides, I enjoy the silly flashcards and I love getting used to the native sounds of the language. Still, I have my doubts. Not wasting money might means wasting time? Why not just Schenker and forget RS? 3. Yale's Basic Polish by Schenker. 1 hour/day. I have the audio and I am waiting for vol 1 & 2. They should be arriving soon. 4. Anki's practice until getting 3000 words. It means 2 hours/day plus anki By the Summer, I will start reading polish books. My wife will be visiting Poland and bring some teenager books for me. I looked into the Assimil Polish but I do not want to bother with French. (Even though I used to speak French 40 years ago. I want to focus completely with Polish.) However, the idea of using it as an easy reader is attractive. Also I am not clear about this thing of studying Polish Grammar. Would reading deliver the grammar by itself? That is the plan. Comments will be appreciated. Luis 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Hungringo Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 3979 days ago 168 posts - 329 votes Speaks: Hungarian*, English, Spanish Studies: French | Message 2 of 11 13 February 2014 at 10:28pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Please note, I don't speak Polish although I am surrounded by Poles and understand a bit and I have a basic idea about Polish grammar.
First thing first: Why did you consider it a plague? If you don't like the language and/or the culture and the only reason you want to learn the language is cheap retirement you are facing an uphill battle. Polish is a difficult language with a complex grammar and for Anglo- and Hispanophones tongue-breaking pronunciation. You will definitely need a good grammar book. I don't like Rosetta Stone, I was given some RS programs, but never used them, because I find them totally useless. I don't know anything about Yale's Basic Polish. Hippocrene's Begginners Polish seems to me a good and thorough starter with solid grammar foundations and audio CDs. I would use this first then other programs. If I remember well Teach Yourself also has a Polish book and Hugo too. Then I would use FSI and the old Linguaphone Polish if you can get hold of it. Personally, I am not interested in teenagers books and if you are about to retire neither are you. Read what you are interested in. The same goes for TV programs. Watch some Polish programs every day, whatever you like be it soap opera or political discussion or wildlife documentary. Good luck! Edited by Hungringo on 13 February 2014 at 10:40pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5000 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 3 of 11 13 February 2014 at 10:33pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Welcome to the forums!
Your goal is surely a great one. C2 is a high goal, and it's hard to guess on that, but you can surely reach a level allowing you to be completely functional in Polish. I've recently met a few foreigners fully functional in Czech (which is similar to Polish) despite having learnt as adults and having an accent etc. However, RS doesn't have a good name on htlal and there are no testimonials on the internet proving it is a good main tool except for the dubious ones on the official RS website. It is basically an overpriced flash card program. It seems their newest version is trying to fix some of the old pitfalls but you can get lots of higher quality sources for the price (a course or two, tons of dvds, books,...). 600 hours will get you really far. 3000 words are a good base which can be expanded quite naturally. Reading and listening to the language will help immensely with internalizing grammar but I wouldn't damn looking at the grammar rules and tables as well to make the process faster if I were you. Read what you like. If you are not opposed to teenage books, they are usually a good choice. But if you dislike them, don't force yourself and choose something more to your taste. There are many awesome Polish authors and some were certainly translated to English (such as Lem or Sapkowski) so you can use them basically as bilingual texts. And you can as well find audiobooks quite easily for some of the books. Don't underestimate listening. I had been doing that mistake for years. Books are awesome but most people need huge amounts of material for listening as well. There is quite a lot of Polish learners here on htlal. A great source may be their logs. Use the google search function of the forum to find logs of the members of Team Zubr. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Fuenf_Katzen Diglot Senior Member United States notjustajd.wordpress Joined 4360 days ago 337 posts - 476 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Polish, Ukrainian, Afrikaans | Message 4 of 11 13 February 2014 at 11:48pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I'm a little over halfway to 600 hours in Polish(I think--I'm very conservative with my hour estimates). I'm pretty confident that I'll be within the B-range by the time I hit that many hours, which will probably get me pretty far.
I've never tried any of the Rosetta Stone/Assimil/Anki so I don't know how much it would benefit, but as far as Rosetta Stone is concerned, in the beginning I don't think it can really hurt. Personally I tried to learn with a communicative approach book and it just wasn't right for me. With Polish, eventually you have to get to the grammar, and sometimes it comes between learning vocabulary and learning grammar. I definitely am not at the point yet where reading by itself has taught me grammar--it's more that it reinforced the grammar I already learned separately. Good luck! 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Lusan Diglot Newbie United States Joined 3933 days ago 35 posts - 53 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: Polish | Message 5 of 11 14 February 2014 at 12:03am | IP Logged | |||||
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Hungringo" ---"Why did you consider it a plague? If you don't like the language and/or the culture and the only reason you want to learn the language is cheap retirement you are facing an uphill battle"
"Calling Polish a plague" is just a slang. I meant that since I married a pole it was always there as a bug and kept at bay. My wife is also German and told me to learn German, which I poorly did. I am probably A2- in German. Also as latino, I found Polish very alien. Its sound has plenty of s, ch, sh, j, etc. So different to the many Spanish vowels or English consonants. My mother makes fun of it. Me? The more I learn it, the more beautiful I found it. Polish appears beautiful and challenging. However, resources are not as available as English, German, French, or Spanish. What a shade. I keep telling my wife that I wish her family were from the romance family! Regarding cheap retirement: I could easily stay in USA. Money is not an issue. I like the challenge of a non-romance language. Family is all. The good thing that her family seems very excited about my journey. I guess I will have plenty of Polish tutors soon. I will not have to pay for lessons. I think that teenager books are easy reading. Any easy reading will do the job. I do not care at all about their content but the language itself. Will reading take care of my grammar lessons needs? Listening is very important. Ideally, I would like to see Polish TV, but TV is not allowed in my house. That is a philosophical/political issue. So no TV. However YouTube is Ok. I passed a week watching Polish movies in youtube. I learned a lot about polish body language! Cavesa: For me having an accent is not a big deal. Everyone in USA has an accent, even those that deny them! Some accents are more beautiful than others. Listening is very important. I am listening back and for every day ~ 40 min. I use tapes that I made from "First Polish reader." I committed myself to keep my commuting time as a Polish inmension. Maybe I am nut, but I would love being able to eventually appreciate Polish poetry. That is a wish. Something to dream about. Cheer. Edited by Lusan on 14 February 2014 at 12:07am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Lusan Diglot Newbie United States Joined 3933 days ago 35 posts - 53 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English Studies: Polish | Message 6 of 11 14 February 2014 at 12:05am | IP Logged | |||||
How are you doing it?
I see RS as just a way to get going. It is clear that it will not delivery fluency. But as my wife just told me (She speaks fluent English, Spanish, German, and Polish. A2 in French, Russian..) learning is learning. So you take whatever is there. Edited by Lusan on 14 February 2014 at 12:12am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5000 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 7 of 11 14 February 2014 at 12:11am | IP Logged | |||||
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Reading will take care of a huge part of your grammar practice and some part of the lessons. However, I find explicit learning of grammar to be the best with combination with native input no matter the language.
I wouldn't underestimate the interest in the content, if I were you. In order to progress, you will need to read a lot. And that is much easier when you enjoy the content. Even many "adult" aimed books are easy enough for reading, sometimes easier than the "teenager" aimed ones. Looking at a few popular detective novels or translations of not too hard books may show you some options. And a lot of non fiction tends to be accessible from early levels on. Wikipedia is an awesome start but there is lot more to discover. Accent is the smallest trouble. But even the most proficient speakers who learnt Czech as adults are making mistakes of various kind. They are easily understood but they are usually far from the perfection of learners of large (and perhaps easier) languages. However, as long as they can function in the language, it doesn't matter at all. You will find that natives of less popular languages tend to be excited about much less skill and forgiving much more mistakes than the spoiled English natives. :-) 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Mooby Senior Member Scotland Joined 6096 days ago 707 posts - 1220 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Polish | Message 8 of 11 14 February 2014 at 12:13am | IP Logged | |||||
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Welcome Lusan to the mind-altering world of Polish!
1. Team Żubr ('Bisons') that Cavesa mentioned disbanded at the end of last year, but you can check out the list of logs from our former team thread. The current Polish aficiandos are teamed with Ukrainian learners in Team Sokoły / Соколи. You could enquire about joining them if you want more interaction with other learners. 2. There is a comprehensive Polish Profile available on HTLAL, containing links to excellent learning materials. 3. Don't be discouraged by natives telling you how hard Polish is. Yes it is, but in some ways (admittedly only some!) it's easier than English for a non-native learner. Being a largely phonetic language is not an insignificant mercy. 4. I use Anki and find it invaluable. Try to add simple phrases and sentences to the words you collate, to illustrate declensions and conjugations. I annotate my cards regularly. 5. Grammar tables can be simplified onto handy cards that you can keep by your side for instant referral. You'll want to refer to the declensions and conjugations as you read stuff, without having to waste time digging around books. Check out Iversen's 'Green Sheets' idea. 6. Reading will reinforce the grammar you know, and sensitise you to unfamilar concepts, but you'll still have to study grammar explicitly and do drills. Sorry! 7. Use your wife! Do you talk to her in Polish? I realise that learning from a spouse or family member has the potential to strain relationships (like my Dad trying to teach me to drive!), but suitable opportunities are worth maximising. 8. Don't forget to enjoy it! There's an abundance of great music, literature, caberet, theatre.....and cheesecake...waiting for you to dive in! Polish is great! Powodzenia 1 person has voted this message useful |
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