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French: Consuming Massive Input | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| rlnv Senior Member United States Joined 3943 days ago 126 posts - 233 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 25 of 31 06 October 2014 at 6:06am | IP Logged | |||||
Speaking French has kind of been my nemesis since I started studying. After all, for me "fluent" speech is my ultimate goal. It just seems like somewhere along the way, I learned to accept that I'm very introverted and speaking early is very stressful to me. Also, I found out that I enjoy reading, watching, and listening. While I'm certain a more balanced approach may be the most efficient overall, for me an input first, output second makes more sense. I'm in a similar situation as you, I don't have any real need to speak French other than having some feeling inside dragging me along, telling me that I must get to a high level! And I'm certain I will at some point, and there will be a reward for my efforts. In Las Vegas they say, "build it and they will come". For me I'm thinking "learn French and a significant need for it will present itself". Even if nothing more comes of it than being able to watch cool French movies, read books, and talk to the odd French person I come across, for me the years of effort that it will take is a small price to pay. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| rdearman Senior Member United Kingdom rdearman.orgRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5228 days ago 881 posts - 1812 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian, French, Mandarin | Message 26 of 31 06 October 2014 at 11:35am | IP Logged | |||||
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As for speaking, have you considered just parroting after a native speaker in an audio book, or other recording? It will help with pronunciation and get your mouth used to twisting around all those French vowel sounds before the need to use it in anger. I find when I encounter someone to speak French with my issue is mispronunciation.
I seem to have the same problem as Mark Twain: "In Paris they just simply opened their eyes and stared when we spoke to them in French! We never did succeed in making those idiots understand their own language." 5 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arnaud25 Diglot Senior Member France Joined 3834 days ago 129 posts - 235 votes Speaks: French*, English Studies: Russian | Message 27 of 31 06 October 2014 at 12:28pm | IP Logged | |||||
Lol, I love that quote, you really made my day :) It's so true :) Edited by Arnaud25 on 06 October 2014 at 12:31pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| luke Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 7197 days ago 3133 posts - 4351 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 28 of 31 06 October 2014 at 1:18pm | IP Logged | |||||
I'm with you guys. I can totally identify with each thing you think, feel, and say. My basic approach is how little output can I do and still make good progress. For me, some output is definitely helpful. It doesn't have to be conversation at this point. I don't really think of adding a significant conversation component to my studies until I've got FSI down fairly well. The "conversation" thingy I think will come when I feel my thinking in French is pretty good. Iversen talks about "thinking in the language". I've been postponing that to a significant degree until I think my grammar automaticity is good. Don't mean to be a log bomber, but sometimes these thoughts feel more at home in the place they were given impetus for expression. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| rlnv Senior Member United States Joined 3943 days ago 126 posts - 233 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 29 of 31 11 October 2014 at 6:32am | IP Logged | |||||
Good quote for a laugh, but I my goal is to never personally utter those words!
Not at all. I appreciate all comments and interest in my log. Progress and reading direction: When I started this log I listed out books completed to date. The following have been completed since my original post. CPLI: Ma voiture à moi CPLI: Le voyage perdu CPLI: Où est passé Marin CPLI: Vive le taureau ! CPLI: Les yeux de Carmen Le petit Nicholas My current estimated word count is 138,205. This includes all finished and unfinished books. I also lowered my estimated word count per page on several of books. The count is only first pass reading. I’m not including the additional passes I’m doing while simultaneously listening to the audio. For much of the time that I spend reading the CPLI books, I was averaging 20 – 25 pages per day. My average came down when I started reading Le petit Nicholas, but increased toward the end to almost 20 pages per day again. With Eli Voltaire Candide of which I’m currently half way through, my average is down to about 10 pages per day due mainly to large portions of the book having too much unknown vocabulary. There is a surprising amount of low frequency verbs, and other vocabulary in the book. While Le petit Nicholas was a fairly easy read, I’m finding Voltaire Candide a grind during some sections of the book. I’m getting good Anki cards, but I don’t think I’m getting as much value for my time spend versus the more extensive reading I was getting with earlier books. So in an effort to get up to a consistent 25 pages per day, I’ve decided to read a couple more Le petit Nicholas books, and one or two Enid Blyton books I came across. Reading 25 pages a day is quite extensive for me. I’m certain I can get up to and maintain that pace with these books, while still picking up lots of new vocabulary and getting some good consolation. I’ll keep reading books in this range of difficulty range for a month or two, or until I feel it’s time to tackle something more intensive. The more extensive reading of the easier books will also leave me with more time to do my reading-listening and FSI studies. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4525 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 30 of 31 11 October 2014 at 9:17am | IP Logged | |||||
I think that's a good approach. There is always going to be a trade-off between quality and quantity when you are starting out. Having a page goal per day/month will force you to keep reading, rather than getting bogged down in certain books. I keep pushing the envelope of what I can read, as the more interesting books are harder (more complex grammar/more low frequency words); having a page goal keeps me on track. Concentrating on output later worked for me. There is a common complain among expats here in Berlin that Germans will always switch to English when they try to practise their German. My impression is that this doesn't happen once you get to about a B2 level. Until you reach this level it very difficult to have or hold a conversation as you simply lack too many words. Last week I dropped in a language school I know to see if I could get a tutor to work on my conversation a bit. I haven't been in the school of two years, and just been working on my own via input, and head of the school remarked at how much better my German had become. We could talk for a long time (an hour?) with her over lots of different topics in a fairly fluent manner. So input and late output definitely works. The only problem is that I don't have a good explicit knowledge of grammar. I say things because they seem to sound correct, but there is a danger that I make subtle or not so subtle errors in my speech/writing which I can't detect. I don't think this is something to worry about at first, but at a later stage it might be something that needs to be worked on. 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tommus Senior Member CanadaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5858 days ago 979 posts - 1688 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Dutch, French, Esperanto, German, Spanish | Message 31 of 31 13 October 2014 at 12:57am | IP Logged | |||||
Here are two sources of extremely accurate subtitles in massive quantities of high quality video and audio material from Quebec. The material is surprisingly interesting and the quality of the audio and the quality of the French is very very good, and very conversational and useful. The first is the Charbonneau Commission, a "Commission of Inquiry on the Awarding and Management of Public Contracts in the Construction Industry". It sounds boring but it is a corruption enquiry, largely in and around Montreal, which gets more and more interesting as time goes on. Here is the short Wikipedia page in English: URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C harbonneau_Commission Here is the Commission website with 23 months of testimony, YES, 23 months of testimony: URL=https://www.ceic.gouv.qc.ca/audiences.h tml You can directly download the transcripts as pdf files but I have not been able to figure out any way of downloading the video/audio so I watch it online. Please let me know if you find a way to download the video/audio. The second source is the Quebec provincial legislature, with a large archive of material. I find the best part is the Question and Answer period several times a week (Période de questions et réponses orales). In this case you can directly download the video/audio as an mp4 file and the transcripts as pdf files. Sometimes there is some searching to find the start points of the matching video/audio with the transcription. But the quality and quantity of material and the accuracy of the transcripts make it well worthwhile. http://www.assnat.qc.ca/en/video- audio/index.html 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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