Preterite Vs Imperfect (Advice Center) Language Learning Forum

Preterite Vs Imperfect
Tags: Verbs/Conjugation \| Spanish
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Hencke
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Message 9 of 24

14 November 2008 at 8:57am | IP Logged

furrykef wrote:

Here's one example that confounds me. This was from an exercise where you were instructed to fill in each blank with the correct preterite (i.e., not imperfect) form of saber to agree with the verb's subject:

--Nosotros no (supimos) nada de lo que preguntaron en ese examen. ¿Tú (supiste) algo?
--¡Nada! Yo tampoco (supe) ni una palabra.

I don't understand why the preterite was used, though. This doesn't seem to signal the beginning or completion of an event as I understand it.

Considering that the imperfect form is often referred to as "pretérito imperfecto" in Spanish, are you sure the question was not really about whether to use imperfect or preterite there ("pretérito imperfecto" or "pretérito simple" respectively) ?
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furrykef
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Message 10 of 24

14 November 2008 at 6:32pm | IP Logged

Hencke wrote:

Positive. It came up in this article, which discusses teaching the difference between the two tenses. Frustratingly, it pointed out that the preterite use of "saber" obviously didn't mean "find out" (as it often does) in that context, but it didn't elaborate any further. This is the relevant portion:

Quote:

Another first-year textbook does something similar. In an exercise (which appears well before the discussion of «meaning change» verbs) preterite verb forms are to be practiced. In the portion that follows, the correct form of the preterite of saber is to be used in each blank to complete the conversation:
-Nosotros no __________ nada de lo que preguntaron en ese examen. ¿Tú __________ algo?
-¡Nada! Yo tampoco __________ ni una palabra.

In this context, the preterite of saber would be translated as «knew/did not know»; «found out» does not make sense.

- Kef

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furrykef
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Message 11 of 24

16 November 2008 at 1:12pm | IP Logged

Javi wrote:

No me sabía la lección = The lesson wasn't in my mind
No me supe la lección = I failed to show that the lesson was in my mind

The problem with this example, though, is it's hard to generalize from. I don't know other sentences that fit this pattern.

Javi wrote:

It mustn't, but fue sounds a bit silly in this case.

I just thought I'd point out that I think you mean "It doesn't have to" rather than "It musn't". To me, "it musn't" means more or less the same as "it cannot".

- Kef

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Javi
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Message 12 of 24

17 November 2008 at 1:12pm | IP Logged

furrykef wrote:

Javi wrote:

No me sabía la lección = The lesson wasn't in my mind
No me supe la lección = I failed to show that the lesson was in my mind

The problem with this example, though, is it's hard to generalize from. I don't know other sentences that fit this pattern.

Well, perhaps you haven't come across this kind of sentences yet, but it's very common in fact when saber is used in the sense of knowing how to do something, or more precisely, just doing something (no supo hacerlo = no lo hizo o lo hizo mal). Just go to Google and type "no supo", you will see that in most of the results saber doesn't mean to find out.

Also notice that in English you say 'he can't swim', whereas we say 'no sabe nadar', for example:

Se ahogó porque no sabía nadar.
No supo nadar hasta los 15 años.

So, no se supo la lección = no supo contestar a las preguntas que le hizo la maestra para comprobar si se sabía la lección.

Quote:

Javi wrote:

It mustn't, but fue sounds a bit silly in this case.

I just thought I'd point out that I think you mean "It doesn't have to" rather than "It musn't". To me, "it musn't" means more or less the same as "it cannot".

- Kef

Yeah, that's it, thanks.

Edited by Javi on 23 November 2008 at 10:17am
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furrykef
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Message 13 of 24

19 November 2008 at 11:38pm | IP Logged

I'm familiar with that usage of "saber". It's the use of the preterite that I still don't quite get. I think I need examples using other verbs.

BTW, you'd typed "swing" instead of "swim", and in one of your previous posts you had "cost" instead of "coast". (Sorry if these corrections are annoying, but I feel a certain obligation to make corrections. ^^;)

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TheBiscuit
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Message 14 of 24

05 December 2008 at 9:52am | IP Logged

No me lo supe to me sounds like - in that moment I didn't know (it) whereas no me lo sabía - I just didn't know (it) and never did.
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ellasevia
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Message 15 of 24

07 December 2008 at 2:43pm | IP Logged

In my Spanish class, my teacher gave us the following mnemonic device to remember when to use the imperfect:

Descriptions
Emotions
Age
Time (no reference of)
Habitual Actions
Continuous Actions
Ongoing Actions
Weather

(Notice how it spells "DEATHCOW")

In the preterite, "saber" meant to have found out and in the imperfect it means to have known:
Supe que habrá una fiesta mañana. = I found out that there will be a party tomorrow.
Ya lo sabía. = I already knew that.
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furrykef
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Message 16 of 24

07 December 2008 at 6:48pm | IP Logged

ellasevia - but that mnemonic doesn't have anything to do with this particular issue with "saber", and the preterite in "saber" obviously does not mean "find out" in the example I posted.

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