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Ancient Greek and Latin: study strategy | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
| sofi Newbie United States Joined 4953 days ago 7 posts - 9 votes Speaks: English* | Message 1 of 48 26 April 2011 at 5:33am | IP Logged | |||||
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Hello,
I have an interest in several languages outside of English (the only language I presently know). The two languages which I wish to study (& reach mastery in) this year are Ancient Greek and Latin. I'm relatively certain I want to start with Ancient Greek first, as any language I learn is to read important works in the original (Aristotle, Plato, Euclid, Galen, Archimedes, and many others come to mind with Ancient Greek). So, question 1: is it inadvisable to begin with Ancient Greek? Within the context of choosing Ancient Greek as a first language (assuming I do, I will ask my in-depth questions regarding Latin when I reach that bridge), my questions are: Q2: Should I begin with Homeric Greek with the intention of reading Homer's works? I wish for a fully comprehensive understanding (expert/scholar) of anything I invest a large amount of time into. I assure all readers that I treat the other subjects which I study with the same attention to the metadesign/metaknowledge of the subject. Q3: I wish to immerse myself in ancient work ASAP. Homer if I begin with Homeric Greek, perhaps Antiphon otherwise. The goal is to learn the language so that I can read all of these wonderful thinkers in the original, but I also wish to speak the language authentically. =) I have no knowledge of linguistics, so my question here is: what is a good general linguistics book which will aid me in decomposing and reconstructing not only Ancient Greek, but other languages I learn in the future? Q4: I've never studied a language before, but from what I have seen, a regularity of study is more necessary than in many other pursuits. How can I find out more about study methods? I am studying far more than just language, so I intend on maximising my time by systematising the language into axioms and models, and learning a great deal of vocabulary through focus. (Ideally, I'll just learn the alphabet+basic grammar, and then go at a real work, and learn by looking up that which I don't already know, similarly to how one learns a new programming language). Yes, I'm a polymath, so please keep my sort of thinking in mind (abstract everything to death) when recommending things for me. Q5: May I have recommendations for books that don't baby the reader, and forums/other resources which can aid me in my quest? (Assuming that I begin with Ancient Greek, my plan is to study it for 5 months, and then study Latin for 3 months. I give 5 months to Ancient Greek because I have never *studied* a language before, and after studying one, the second should be easier.) 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| JasonE Groupie Canada Joined 5061 days ago 54 posts - 78 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 2 of 48 26 April 2011 at 6:10am | IP Logged | |||||
Fixed. In all seriousness, ancient greek and latin don't have a reputation for being easy languages, so you'll be doing yourself a favor if you increase the estimated time that you expect to learn them in. I've heard of people recommending learning Greek first and then Latin, claiming that latin would be a relative breeze after the harder Greek. I've also heard the recommendation of learning Latin first and then Greek, on the claim that learning Latin will ease you into learning dead languages. I'm sure either way can be done, and like most of this language learning business, interest in the language is key. Go with Greek if thats what you think you'd want to spend more time studying. I considered learning both languages, but I decided that it wasn't for me, and as such I can't give any specific recommendations. Keep studying, if you really want to learn them, you will. Good luck. Edited by JasonE on 26 April 2011 at 6:11am 10 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| sofi Newbie United States Joined 4953 days ago 7 posts - 9 votes Speaks: English* | Message 3 of 48 26 April 2011 at 6:28am | IP Logged | |||||
Um, did you just basically respond to tell me that you believe my estimates are inaccurate? That isn't really useful to me, as I know what I'm capable of, and you do not. o.O As for the rest of your post, I strongly wish for specific reasons for any assertion. I offered my assertions (goals) with motivations. edit: 5 months is an ideal estimate. Could take around a year, really. It depends on how good my natural ability to pick up language is. Edited by sofi on 26 April 2011 at 6:38am 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| JasonE Groupie Canada Joined 5061 days ago 54 posts - 78 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 4 of 48 26 April 2011 at 7:14am | IP Logged | |||||
Yes I did, but it wasn't to be a jerk, it was to keep you from being discouraged when you don't progress quite as fast as you had hoped. Learning Greek on you own? That professor estimates that the percentage of people who learn ancient greek on their own is under 5%. Those who could learn it in 5-12 months likely compose a small fraction of that 5%. Good luck with the journey. 6 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| etracher Triglot Groupie Italy Joined 5325 days ago 92 posts - 180 votes Speaks: English*, Italian, Spanish Studies: Modern Hebrew, Russian, Latvian | Message 5 of 48 26 April 2011 at 8:07am | IP Logged | |||||
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Q1 - I don't think it is inadvisable at all. I have heard some people argue for starting one or the other, but I think in the end it is simply a question of opinion. They are completely different branches of the Indo-European family and thus I do not think that there is that much help either way. That said, morphologically speaking, Greek is much more complex than Latin. Therefore, if you study Greek first, then Latin will likely seem somewhat simpler.
Q2 - It depends on what you want to read. If you want to start reading Homer as soon as possible, then start with Homeric Greek. If you want to start with philosophy or theatre, then Attic. Either way, you should not have many problems making the transition from one to the other. Q3 - I cannot think of any particular book to recommend. Although I am curious, do you really mean that you intend to learn to speak Ancient Greek? Q4 - This forum is a great place to read about study methods. Q5 - Perseus This is a wonderful site with texts, word reference/dictionary. Textkit A site dedicated entirely to Greek and Latin learning, with a forum, downloadable public domain texts. As far as books go, if you are interested in Homer, Clyde Pharr's Homeric Greek (available on textkit) is old but gets you reading Homer right away. There is a newer text for Homer called 'A Reading Course in Homeric Greek" but I have never even had a chance to look at it. Good luck in your studies and welcome to the forum. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5444 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 6 of 48 26 April 2011 at 11:25am | IP Logged | |||||
You don't know what you're capable of until you have studied at least one language. 24 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Meelämmchen Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5074 days ago 214 posts - 249 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: Modern Hebrew | Message 7 of 48 26 April 2011 at 11:40am | IP Logged | |||||
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Ha. You really want to decompose and reconstruct, master, and speak authentically Ancient Greek in five months (maybeee a year), and doing the same with Latin in the final three months of the year?
Homines sumus, non dei! 11 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| cmj Octoglot Groupie Switzerland Joined 5329 days ago 58 posts - 191 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Ancient Greek, French, Arabic (classical), Latin, Italian | Message 8 of 48 26 April 2011 at 1:02pm | IP Logged | |||||
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My two cents:
Q1 - The advantages of starting with Latin are significantly higher if you already speak a romance language. That said, even in that case, I don't know that there are huge advantages to be had by learning Latin first, and certainly not if you already know you want to begin with Greek. Q2 - As others have said, it depends on your interest. That said, the Homeric dialectic is a strange mix of different Greek dialects, so there is a great deal of inconsistency in the grammar (many conjugations have multiple forms that can be further modified to fit the meter). Vocabulary and syntax, too, are a great deal more complicated than in Attic or Koine and in Greek poetry is much more challenging to read than prose. There are of course no prose works written in Homeric Greek. All of this is to say that unless you have a burning desire to dive right into Homer, I'd suggest you begin with Attic Greek. It's somewhat simpler and gives you a very good basis for Homeric Greek and Koine. Also, since 90% of the classics are in Attic, you have good selection of materials to begin reading. Even at quite a basic level, you can already start reading the early Platonic dialogues as well as the historians and some of the orators. Q3 - If you're looking to dive right in, again I'd suggest Attic. There are simple stories you can read almost from the beginning, and many texts accessible at the intermediate level as well. I'm quite an abstract learner myself, but I think lingusitics textbooks, while interesting, are too broad to be of practical help. You might pick up something specifically on Indo-European linguistics, but even then the scope is too broad to be of much use. Q4 + 5 - If you're an abstract thinker, you'll probably appreciate a grammar heavy approach. I personally recommend Donald Mastronarde's Introduction to Attic Greek. It's quite dry, but if you have the patience and discipline to work through it you'll really learn your stuff. It also has many English to Greek translation exercises to build your active skills and all the Greek passages are taken from authentic works. The single most difficult part of Greek (and Latin) in my opinion is the grammar. It takes a lot of work to master the cases and (especially) the conjugations to the point where you're a comfortable reader. Teach Yourself Ancient Greek isn't bad either, although I don't find it nearly as rigorous as Mastronarde. All in all, you're looking at a couple of years of hard study to get to the point where you can fairly comfortably read the books you mentioned in the original, and even longer to get to a level of scholarly mastery. It's only now, after two and a half years of studying Greek philosophy more or less full time that I am comfortable reading most texts, although I still need to use the dictionary quite often. (Greek has a very large vocabulary). Anyway, hope this helps. If you have any questions, let me know. Best of luck with your studies. 8 persons have voted this message useful |
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