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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| mike245 Triglot Senior Member Hong Kong Joined 6812 days ago 303 posts - 408 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish, Cantonese Studies: French, German, Mandarin, Khmer | Message 1 of 124 04 March 2010 at 3:00am | IP Logged | |||||
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Due to recent developments, I have been living in Hong Kong since March 2013, and plan
to be here for the foreseeable future. So after years of studying other languages (or simply not studying any languages at all), I am now devoting myself to learning Cantonese. My goal? To reach advanced fluency someday. In the meanwhile, I would be happy getting to a good colloquial conversational level by the end of 2013, and then learning how to read in 2014. As a person particularly prone to language "wanderlust, I've studied or attempted to study numerous languages over the years. Even though my focus is on Cantonese, I continue to indulge in studying other languages. For ease of tracking, I've consolidated my language learning efforts into this single learning logbook. Please excuse the rambling. ORIGINAL POST I have decided to learn some Japanese in preparation for a trip to Tokyo this upcoming September. Japanese was never really on my language hit list, and I have no desires to be "fluent" in the language, but I have heard that it is difficult to get around Japan without any knowledge of the language. I am hoping that this logbook and the resources here will help me stay motivated as I acquire some of this very difficult and fascinating language! I started approximately two weeks ago, and am currently on Lesson 7 of Pimsleur Japanese I. My progress is very slow right now. My previous Pimsleur experiences were with languages that I had already studied in some detail (Mandarin, French) or a language similar to one I already speak (Italian), so this is my first time truly starting a language from scratch. The lessons go pretty slowly, but it is still really hard! I have been resisting the urge to write everything down. However, some of these lessons take 3-4 listens before the words actually sink in. Hopefully, it will get better over the upcoming weeks as my brain makes room for the new language, but in the meanwhile, I am trying to take things slow. Once I get a strong enough basis in Pimsleur, I plan to add the Living Language Ultimate Japanese course to my study schedule, so that I can increase my vocabulary. This may be crazy, but I am also taking a Cantonese Chinese course right now in school and also trying to self-study French on the side. I will be spending a month in Paris before I make my trip out to Tokyo, so hopefully, I will know enough of the two languages to be able to appreciate both cities when I do go. I know that wanderlust is usually bad, but this multi-tasking hopefully will keep my interest up, and right now, I am more interested in getting some level of functionality in the languages rather than actual proficiency. I will likely be adding separate logbook entries for my French study, also to keep me motivated. My goal for the upcoming week: Finish up to Lesson 10 of Pimsleur Japanese I. Edited by mike245 on 19 July 2013 at 4:18am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| mike245 Triglot Senior Member Hong Kong Joined 6812 days ago 303 posts - 408 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Cantonese Studies: French, German, Mandarin, Khmer | Message 2 of 124 10 March 2010 at 8:33pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Japanese: I'm now up to Lesson 11 of Pimsleur Japanese I. I've been listening to each lesson 2-3 times, and it's finally starting to sink in. I am having less trouble with putting together sentences, although I still have to think about the word order quite a bit. Japanese seems to put the verb at or near the end of a sentence rather than at the beginning, which is pretty confusing and will take some time getting used to. Japanese also has an interesting way of attaching final particles to nouns, e.g., watashi wa, watashi to, etc. which is nothing like I've ever seen before in my language studies. I am sure there is a rule behind the particles, but right now, I'm just trying to memorize the sentences in Pimsleur and get a feel for the language. I definitely want to become more familiar with the language before I start cracking open the grammar books and pulling out the Romaji.
French: I just finished Lesson 17 of Pimsleur II. My comprehension has improved quite a bit, but it's been hard to put it all together. In particular, I am having trouble stringing together sentences fluently -- I tend to get bogged down with trying to pronounce accurately each word instead. I've noticed that even though I can pronounce French pretty accurately and have no trouble being understood by native speakers, I haven't gotten the hang of the flow and rhythm of the language yet. I hope this is a matter of time and practice. I plan to finish up Pimsleur and then pick up with Assimil New French with Ease. I think shadowing will really help me with my pronounciation and fluidity. I've also started with French in Action. I downloaded the videos a few years ago and bought the textbook for the course when I thought I wanted to leearn French, but never got around to using them, even though the course seems quite fun and relatively pain-free. The first few lessons have been okay, but it seems to be moving quite slowly. Because I have a background in Spanish and Portuguese, I can understand pretty much everything the professor says. However, it is still good listening practice, since it gives me exposure to lots of cognate words from my other languages. Hopefully, this will really expand my passive vocabulary! On another note, I just finished my final exam for conversational Cantonese yesterday, which consisted of a 15 minute interview with the professor about my family, hobbies, Chinese customs, and various role-playing situations (e.g., at the airline counter, reserving a room at a hotel, telling short stories, etc.). My professor is actually an official tester/interviewer for the government, and she (unofficially) rated my language as Intermediate-High on the ACTFL scale. It's been very nice to see my progress in the past few months -- in the 14 hours of instruction this term, I've learned about 300 new words and I've become more familiar with the grammar and structure of the language. I suppose it helps that our class only has 4 students, which means lots of opportunities to talk in class. I am planning to continue with the next class in the series. It's minimal work outside of the class time, but I think it's a good way to maintain and slowly build on my knowledge of the language. Edited by mike245 on 10 March 2010 at 8:40pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5221 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 3 of 124 10 March 2010 at 8:42pm | IP Logged | |||||
Indeed, the verb is always at the end, except for certain sentence coordinating words (like but, since, as, etc.).
Particles are always at the end of nouns or noun phrases. How would you compare your progress in Japanese and in French? It's said that Japanese should take 3 to 4 times longer. Would you agree? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| mike245 Triglot Senior Member Hong Kong Joined 6812 days ago 303 posts - 408 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Cantonese Studies: French, German, Mandarin, Khmer | Message 4 of 124 11 March 2010 at 7:16pm | IP Logged | |||||
It's hard to say just how much more difficult Japanese is to learn than French, but it is definitely more difficult. 3 to 4 times longer doesn't feel like a stretch at all. I do have a bit of a headstart in French, since I studied it for one year in high school and there are lots of cognates shared with English and Spanish. French grammar and syntax are largely similar to Spanish, and I haven't delved into reading yet, so I don't have any complaints about the spelling so far. The main issue in French for me seems to be active production and pronunciation, which don't seem insurmountable. In contrast, Japanese feels like a "true" foreign language to me. Aside from a few words borrowed from English and a some words that resemble Chinese, I have been struggling to make sense of the vocabulary, the grammar, and the pronunciation. I think that having to struggle on all fronts of learning the language (rather than on just a few aspects) is what is making it so frustrating. I don't suppose my knowledge of Chinese will help that much either, unless I want to read kanji some day. I'll continue to log my comparisons between the two languages, but I can say now that I don't expect to have any level of real proficiency by the time I head off to Tokyo in September. The language is simply too difficult, especially as it is spoken in real time. But hopefully, if I can finish Pimsleur Japanese and get through part of LL Ultimate Japanese, I'll have some minimal survival skills! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5221 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 5 of 124 11 March 2010 at 7:59pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I went to Japan after 6 months of study, and then again after 18 months of study.
18 months has not made me a perfect Japanese speaker, but it's taken me to a B1/B2 level. During this last trip, I vowed not to say a word of English and I stayed with Japanese families and friends, and I was able to converse with people about a variety of subjects. I was proud of what I'd accomplished. Still, there is still a lot of work to do... 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| mike245 Triglot Senior Member Hong Kong Joined 6812 days ago 303 posts - 408 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Cantonese Studies: French, German, Mandarin, Khmer | Message 6 of 124 11 March 2010 at 11:59pm | IP Logged | |||||
Wow, that's quite an accomplishment! May I ask how much time you spent on average studying the language? Also, I noticed on your profile that you used the Teach Yourself and other sources. Did you like the Teach Yourself book, and would you recommend it (or any other resources) for a beginner looking for some basics in Japanese? I am using the Teach Yourself Cantonese book right now in my conversational Cantonese class, and it moves really fast. Despite knowing quite a few words already (and being roughly at A2 level in speaking skills), I find that I'm learning a huge amount of new stuff in every chapter, and I can't imagine trying to learn from the book if I were a complete beginner. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5221 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 7 of 124 12 March 2010 at 1:29am | IP Logged | |||||
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Actually, I couldn't tell you how much time I spend daily. I try to do a little bit of
something everyday, but I'm not systematic about what I do. Sometimes I watch a show, or read a lesson, I meet with a native once a week (twice a week for a while), I visit online Japanese fora, listen to Japanese podcasts (practical in the bus or when walking), etc. I'm very motivated and I really enjoy it, but I'm not a machine, nor a soldier, so I don't do well with regimens. Lately, I've been forcing myself to thinking in Japanese though. Well, most of the time, anyway. The only reason I picked Teach Yourself is because few methods were available where I live. I was convinced that any lesson plan would work, and that none would suffice, so it didn't matter that much to me. But I did read through the entire thing. I didn't like the fact there was no hiragana, but I learned it from other sources, anyway. If it feels too fast, slow down the pace and share your time with other methods. But to be fair, I think the 2 sources that helped the most was 1) meeting natives and 2) Japanese language lesson podcasts. Which is probably why my speaking and listening skills are slightly better than my reading and writing skills. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| mike245 Triglot Senior Member Hong Kong Joined 6812 days ago 303 posts - 408 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Cantonese Studies: French, German, Mandarin, Khmer | Message 8 of 124 14 March 2010 at 2:10am | IP Logged | |||||
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Wow, that really makes your rapid progress in the past year and a half seem even more impressive! I just downloaded some Japanese language podcasts off of iTunes, but I think I will stick with Pimsleur at least until I reach the end of Level One, so that I can feel more comfortable with the language before broadening my scope. I definitely want to focus on the speaking and listening skills. I don't think I'll have time to learn the writing system before I leave, and I am traveling with people who can read Chinese, so I suppose we could guess the general meanings of some words if we absolutely had to.
1 person has voted this message useful |
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