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Spanish/Portuguese Pronunciation | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Chris Ford Groupie United States Joined 4685 days ago 65 posts - 101 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Portuguese | Message 1 of 24 25 August 2013 at 5:15am | IP Logged | ||
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Hello everyone,
Inspired by a recent topic in which my fellow forum goers debated the merits of learning one foreign language perfectly or several languages to a lower level, I realized I was in danger of speaking just one foreign language poorly. Especially with regards to pronunciation and accent, which is something that my speaking partners tend not to correct as long as they can understand me. While I wish that my Spanish was really genial or my Portuguese ótimo, I tend to think my friends are just being nice. With that in mind, I intend to focus on improving my pronunciation in Spanish and Portuguese by imitating native sources, reading up on phonetics, and recording myself speaking so that I can critique my progress. I'll then post some of these recordings here, and hopefully some friendly Spanish/Portuguese speakers here will weigh in with corrections, suggestions, or even amusingly worded insults. :) If not, I'll still have a time dated log of my progress! Thanks for reading, Chris Edited by Chris Ford on 25 August 2013 at 7:52pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Chris Ford Groupie United States Joined 4685 days ago 65 posts - 101 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Portuguese | Message 2 of 24 25 August 2013 at 5:19am | IP Logged | ||
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A first effort for tonight - reading the first two paragraphs of this article:
http://mexico.cnn.com/nacional/2013/08/24/profesores-retiran -los-bloqueos-al-congreso-para-planear-nuevas-acciones Link: https://soundcloud.com/fordm48/24august13 First thoughts: sounds kind of robotic, I should probably review the text a few times first so I can read more smoothly. The o's tend towards English o in "hot," and I'm hesitating a lot before my rr's. Single r's are really more like the English variety as well too... Feeling ok considering how tired I am and the fact that I did this in one take though! Edited by Chris Ford on 25 August 2013 at 5:22am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| jeronz Diglot Newbie New Zealand Joined 4800 days ago 37 posts - 79 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French, Yiddish, Latin, German, Italian | Message 3 of 24 25 August 2013 at 8:09am | IP Logged | ||
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I'm not a native speaker but I don't think your accent is as bad as you make it out to be. I would add to your
own feedback (which I agree with) that your 'e' could at times be crisper such as the 'que' at 20s. I would focus more effort indeed on your rr's, it is definitely the most pronounced idiosyncrasy at least for me . I found the following trabalengua very helpful. I recited it obsessively every day for about three months near the beginning of my study and I now have very decent/close to native-like control. The tongue is a muscle and you must train it: Ere con ere en cigarro, Ere con ere en barril, Rápido corren los carros Por los rieles del ferrocarril. You might find the following websites helpful (of which I found immensely helpful in my own intensive phonetic study about a year ago) http://www.uiowa.edu/~acadtech/phonetics/ http://www.uiowa.edu/~acadtech/dialects//# I found it helpful to choose a specific accent (I chose standard Spain Spanish) and study each of the specific sounds. The first website shows you how to make the sound in your mouth, and the second website gives you ample regional material - along with their phonetic transcriptions - to immitate. There is also of course the melody of the dialect which you want to study. Luca has made a few videos about this aspect. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4meTU_wy43o And then of course there is the Professor who has made several videos which provide a brilliant overview of accents http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bz7RB-QQFVw Edited by jeronz on 25 August 2013 at 8:15am 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Chris Ford Groupie United States Joined 4685 days ago 65 posts - 101 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Portuguese | Message 4 of 24 25 August 2013 at 7:20pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks jeronz for that excellent post! I've printed out that trabalenguas and I'm planning to make good use of it. You're definitely correct on the 'training' analogy, as I'm pretty sure I just need more reps. I definitely had a form backslide from dabbling in French as well, as for whatever reason the "throat" r feels more natural to me than the alveolar variety.
I really like the dialects site as well! I've seen similar things for English and I'm glad to see these resources also exist for Spanish. Choosing a particular accent is always an interesting question for me. Most people would assume that being from the US Mexican Spanish would be the best option, but I encounter people from all over the Spanish speaking world, meaning I'd like to be able to communicate with Spaniards, Dominicans, Mexicans, Chileans, etc. Therefore I mostly just go for something that (I hope) will be more or less recognizable to all. I really like the Spanish (from Spain) accent and I like their movies and music, but a lot of Spanish speakers I've met seem to have trouble with it. I see some recommending Colombian (especially Bogotá) for getting an accent that's authentic yet more or less universally intelligible. Maybe there's something to this, as I know I have seen telenovelas direct from Colombia broadcast in the US without being reshot, which would be pretty unthinkable with, say, Argentino. :) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Chris Ford Groupie United States Joined 4685 days ago 65 posts - 101 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Portuguese | Message 5 of 24 25 August 2013 at 7:26pm | IP Logged | ||
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Here's another Spanish one for today, based on this article:
http://mexico.cnn.com/nacional/2013/08/25/descarrilamiento-t abasco-la-bestia https://soundcloud.com/fordm48/spanish25aug13 Even without outside feedback it's good for me to listen to the recordings - lots of o's end up more like "ah" and e's sound more like "eh" than I realized! 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Chris Ford Groupie United States Joined 4685 days ago 65 posts - 101 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Portuguese | Message 6 of 24 25 August 2013 at 7:30pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hmm any way to put Spanish and Portuguese tags on the thread now that it's posted?
thanks! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Chris Ford Groupie United States Joined 4685 days ago 65 posts - 101 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Portuguese | Message 7 of 24 25 August 2013 at 7:49pm | IP Logged | ||
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And now, you Brazilians also get to experience me butchering your language! :)
Source: http://www.estadao.com.br/noticias/esportes,sao-paulo-quer-m ostrar-poder-de-reacao-no-brasileirao,1067686,0.htm Audio: https://soundcloud.com/fordm48/portuguese25aug13 Thoughts: My palatization is pretty inconsistent (sometimes I use a lot, sometimes I forget). I've noticed that with native speakers it varies from person to person what they'll palatize and what they won't, but each person is consistent with regards to when they use it. I'm also guessing as to when I nazalize vowels and how I pronounce x, but that seems to just come with the language to some extent. Finally, I didn't realize how much slower I speak in Portuguese! Part of that is the fact that I'm not as good at it, and I think part just has to do with the speed and tempo of the language. Edited by Chris Ford on 25 August 2013 at 8:01pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Medulin Tetraglot Senior Member Croatia Joined 4610 days ago 1199 posts - 2192 votes Speaks: Croatian*, English, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Norwegian, Hindi, Nepali | Message 8 of 24 25 August 2013 at 8:10pm | IP Logged | ||
Colombian Caracol TV makes soap operas for Miami-based Telemundo in neutral/artificial Latin American Spanish, they have nothing Colombian in it, they are shot in Bogotá with partially Colombian cast but are devoid of any Colombianisms (in these novelas you hear two men using TÚ between themselves, no Bogotan men do this, unless they're gay). I've seen an authentic Colombian novela recently broadcast here on Croatian tv: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosario_Tijeras_%28serie%29 and the language used was so Colombian (ustedeo and voseo, and not tuteo) it was a pleasure to watch. Edited by Medulin on 25 August 2013 at 8:15pm 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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