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Dante’s Italian | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Lessons in Polyglottery |  | |
| Jackal11 Groupie United States Joined 5647 days ago 41 posts - 45 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Latin | Message 1 of 23 28 May 2009 at 5:46am | IP Logged | ||
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Professor Arguelles, I am interested in learning Italian, primarily so that one day I can read Dante's 'Divine Comedy.' I do not know if you have ever read this, but if you have, I am hoping you may help me, and if you have not, I am hoping you may direct me towards someone who may. I understand that this work was written in the early 1300's. Therefore, I would like to know, is knowing modern standard Italian enough to understand this work, or is a specialized understanding of the vocabulary and grammar of Medieval Italian required (especially of the Florentine dialect)? And if so, do you know where I would be able to purchase any such materials that specialize in the Italian of Dante's day and age? I saw your review on Youtube in which you note that a 1976 copy of Hugo's 'Italian in Three Months' (blue cover)contains a section of the Comedy following the book's lessons. Is there anything in that book of special interest to my pursuit? Your assistance would be greatly appreciated.
And while I am here, I have another inquiry. I am currently in the process of learning German in preparation for a trip I will take to Leipzig next year. The main problem I'm having is attempting to acquire a vocabulary large enough to use. Your review of the Cortina series on Youtube left the impression that that series is particularly beneficial for gaining a large vocabulary (around 3,000 words) and contains a large amount of text in the target language. There is one problem however: this series comes from the 1950's and 60's and reviews on Amazon confirm that the series is quite dated. My question then is: is this series worth buying, or would it just teach me expressions half a century out of date? In case your wondering, I'm at about the intermediate stage of learning German. Any other ideas about programs geared toward gaining a larger vocabulary would also be appreciated. Thank you -Justin Horky 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Kugel Senior Member United States Joined 6523 days ago 497 posts - 555 votes  Speaks: English* | Message 2 of 23 29 May 2009 at 8:50pm | IP Logged | ||
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I think that understanding the poem is hard enough in English. You would have to be a genius to understand it in Italian as a second language.
Over 14,000 lines of demanding Italian poetry would be hard for even native Italians. Old books are not meant for us; and by this I mean you need other books to help explain these old books(i.e. footnotes and all that fun scholarly stuff.) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Jackal11 Groupie United States Joined 5647 days ago 41 posts - 45 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Latin | Message 3 of 23 29 May 2009 at 10:59pm | IP Logged | ||
Unacceptable. I must be able to read this poem as it was originally meant to be. I just need to know what tools I'll need. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Satoshi Diglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5808 days ago 215 posts - 224 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, English Studies: German, Japanese | Message 4 of 23 30 May 2009 at 6:22am | IP Logged | ||
Wow, glad to know I am some kind of mutant for being able to read Shakespeare and John Milton... Thiago Henrique 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Kugel Senior Member United States Joined 6523 days ago 497 posts - 555 votes Speaks: English* | Message 5 of 23 30 May 2009 at 7:05am | IP Logged | ||
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Perhaps there is a big gap between reading and understanding these classical texts? The Commedia certainly assumes that the reader knows the Bible inside out; and in addition to other literary antecedents, the Aeneid.
As for Shakespeare's plays, well, they don't even come close to the difficulty of studying the Commedia. One only needs to take a gander at the courses offered at your local University in literature courses; after looking, you'll find that a fully dedicated Shakespeare course is offered to anybody. I can't speak for Milton, though. I'm not a literature buff, so maybe I'm completely wrong? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| carlonove Senior Member United States Joined 5971 days ago 145 posts - 253 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Italian | Message 6 of 23 30 May 2009 at 8:00pm | IP Logged | ||
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If you want to read the Divine Comedy in Italian, get a copy of the bilingual version of it and start reading as soon as you feel you've got a good enough grammatical foundation. There are lots of books out there on the Tuscan dialect of that era, and it's going to take a ton of work no matter what your proficiency in the language is. If your primary reason for learning Italian is to read Dante you're pretty dedicated to Dante, and you'll be reading the Divine Comedy many, many times. You'll understand the text differently each time, so there's no point in waiting until you're at "genius" proficiency in the language or have acquired the "proper" literary credentials. It would be interesting to note how your perception of the text changes as your grasp of the language grows.
It's true of any piece of literature, native or foreign. I had a professor who's read Moby Dick somewhere between 20-30 times, and he always felt it was worthwhile to continue reading it (aside from the fact that he taught it) because as he changed the literature changed. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Satoshi Diglot Senior Member Brazil Joined 5808 days ago 215 posts - 224 votes Speaks: Portuguese*, English Studies: German, Japanese | Message 7 of 23 31 May 2009 at 3:26am | IP Logged | ||
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Well, it does seem that Dante has lived a good 200 years before Milton and Camões, both classical authors I can read that have written epic poetry that follows, more or less, the same esthetic standards as Dante (at least according to my literature professors).
(There's also Cervantes, though I wouldn't be so quick to say that I *CAN* read him using only the natural mutual Spanish/Portuguese comprehensibility. But I can pretty much follow the plot and some subtleties of the text). Anyways, my point is: it's ridiculous to believe that a non-native wouldn't be able to do it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Jackal11 Groupie United States Joined 5647 days ago 41 posts - 45 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Latin | Message 8 of 23 31 May 2009 at 3:59am | IP Logged | ||
Thank you for your encouragment and advice Carlonove. Waiting in an attempt to gain 'mastery' would seem to be counterproductive. Do you know where I could find such a book on the Tuscan dialect of the era? I've searched Amazon and Abebooks and have come up with nothing. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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