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Ukrainian vs Russian

 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages Post Reply
Poll Question: Is Ukrainian a dialect of Russian
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44 messages over 6 pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 
Vuyko
Newbie
United States
Joined 4933 days ago
1 posts - 5 votes

 
 Message 41 of 44
13 May 2011 at 1:44pm | IP Logged 
William Camden wrote:
[...] As has been noted, it has a
huge amount of Polish vocabulary.


I would say Ukrainian and Polish have huge amount of COMMON vocabulary.

The family of Slavonic languages is big. To say which language has "whose" vocabulary
and which language is "whose" dialect you should study history of old Slavonic tribes
migrations, compare old Slavonic language with modern languages.
Some hints:
There wasn't exist such country as Russia just about 5 centuries ago.
The territory of the modern Ukraine was called Rus. (The Tsar of Moscovits (Peter)
called Moscovia as Russia.)By the creation time of Moscovia, there almost weren't
Slavonic tribes on the territory of modern Russia (except Novgorod and Krivichi tribe).
Only knights and their squads (druziny) were speaking old Slavonic on old Moscovia.
Knights (originally from Kievan Russ, who had Sweden roots btw) managed a mix of tribes
from that territory (Hungary-Finnish the majority ).
... and more, more history that is offtopic....
But the main idea that Ukrainian cant't be the dialect of Russian. It could be contra
way, but it is not. Actually, Russian is the one of the youngest languages. I would say
it is compilation of different Slavonic languages and some not Slavonic. Ukrainian,
polish, Bulgarian and others Slavonic languages have much older common roots with old
Slavonic language than Russian.

5 persons have voted this message useful



William Camden
Hexaglot
Senior Member
United Kingdom
Joined 6261 days ago
1936 posts - 2333 votes 
Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Russian, Turkish, French

 
 Message 42 of 44
15 May 2011 at 9:51pm | IP Logged 
Vuyko wrote:
William Camden wrote:
[...] As has been noted, it has a
huge amount of Polish vocabulary.


I would say Ukrainian and Polish have huge amount of COMMON vocabulary.

The family of Slavonic languages is big. To say which language has "whose" vocabulary
and which language is "whose" dialect you should study history of old Slavonic tribes
migrations, compare old Slavonic language with modern languages.
Some hints:
There wasn't exist such country as Russia just about 5 centuries ago.
The territory of the modern Ukraine was called Rus. (The Tsar of Moscovits (Peter)
called Moscovia as Russia.)By the creation time of Moscovia, there almost weren't
Slavonic tribes on the territory of modern Russia (except Novgorod and Krivichi tribe).
Only knights and their squads (druziny) were speaking old Slavonic on old Moscovia.
Knights (originally from Kievan Russ, who had Sweden roots btw) managed a mix of tribes
from that territory (Hungary-Finnish the majority ).
... and more, more history that is offtopic....
But the main idea that Ukrainian cant't be the dialect of Russian. It could be contra
way, but it is not. Actually, Russian is the one of the youngest languages. I would say
it is compilation of different Slavonic languages and some not Slavonic. Ukrainian,
polish, Bulgarian and others Slavonic languages have much older common roots with old
Slavonic language than Russian.


There was a Commonwealth of Poland and Lithuania about five centuries ago, covering a
huge part of Eastern Europe. Russia did not exist as a state, though its nucleus of
Muscovy did.

Saying Ukrainian and Polish have a huge amount of common vocabulary is true, although
conventionally Ukrainian is placed in East Slavic, Polish in West Slavic. But were
these common words present from the start, or did they arise as a result of a huge
degree of cultural contact at a time when Poland-Lithuania was a far more significant
geopolitical entity than Muscovy?

Polish and Russian have many cognates, based on both being Slavic languages. But
Russian notably lacks many words found in both Ukrainian and Polish. It is as though
many Polish words drifted east into Ukrainian and also Belarusian, but went no further
east. So, for example, in 1984, the automated address on Kiev trolleybuses addressed
"esteemed passengers" as shanovny passazhyry cf. Polish szanowny, while
the Moscow trolleybus system in the same year opted for uvazhaemyye passazhiry.
1 person has voted this message useful



Cherepaha
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 6578 days ago
126 posts - 175 votes 
Speaks: Russian*, English
Studies: Spanish, Polish, Latin, French

 
 Message 43 of 44
12 August 2016 at 11:21am | IP Logged 
William Camden wrote:
Polish and Russian have many cognates, based on both being Slavic languages. But
Russian notably lacks many words found in both Ukrainian and Polish. It is as though
many Polish words drifted east into Ukrainian and also Belarusian, but went no further
east. So, for example, in 1984, the automated address on Kiev trolleybuses addressed
"esteemed passengers" as shanovny passazhyry cf. Polish szanowny, while
the Moscow trolleybus system in the same year opted for uvazhaemyye passazhiry.


This was very interesting, thank you!
A quick note, however, that in this instance Russian is not lacking the word "shanovny". It is archaic in Russian, but it
has the following meanings:
Сановный [san'ovniy] – adj. 1. Having a high rank 2. Garnering respect (according to "толковый словарь
Ефремовой" Efremova’s Dictionary)
1 person has voted this message useful



MayCC
Newbie
United States
Joined 2559 days ago
1 posts - 2 votes
Speaks: Ukrainian

 
 Message 44 of 44
18 November 2017 at 12:41am | IP Logged 
Hi!
Does anybody know where to buy or order Ukrainian or Russian books? or even bilingual
books, like English-Russian or English-Ukrainian? And, by the way, does anybody have any
experience with this site https://readukrainian.net/? I plan to order many books to US,
but those guys seem to be in Ukraine, so, I'm not sure if it's a good idea to order from
them..


2 persons have voted this message useful



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