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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| !LH@N Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6810 days ago 487 posts - 531 votes  Speaks: German, Turkish*, English Studies: Serbo-Croatian, Spanish | Message 25 of 88 08 December 2007 at 2:41pm | IP Logged | |||||
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you have some examples of Turkish words adopted into Persian?
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| William Camden Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6261 days ago 1936 posts - 2333 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Russian, Turkish, French | Message 26 of 88 08 December 2007 at 3:46pm | IP Logged | |||||
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One Turkish word that definitely went east is ordu - "army". Ultimately it became the name of the Urdu language.
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| Jerald Newbie United States Joined 6188 days ago 2 posts - 2 votes Speaks: English* | Message 27 of 88 08 December 2007 at 11:56pm | IP Logged | |||||
Are you sure? I was under the impression that it was very much the other way around. Ottoman rulers, and even their society, were very much influenced by that of Persia. In fact, among historical buffs, I do think it can be argued that Islamic civilization and government as a whole was based on that of Sassanid Persia (and of course the religion of Islam itself) upon it being conquered by Arab invaders. But I digress. I would like to chime in a bit on mutual intelligibility between Turkic languages. I have an Azeri friend who tells me that mutual intelligibility between Turkish and Azerbaijani is grossly overestimated, and that he can only keep up with about 1/4 of what is said on, say, a Turkish talk show. Edited by Jerald on 08 December 2007 at 11:58pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| 24karrot Diglot Groupie United States speakingboricua.blog Joined 6373 days ago 72 posts - 74 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Russian | Message 28 of 88 09 December 2007 at 12:57am | IP Logged | |||||
Are you sure? In Persian it means more like "camping". I could see how those are supposed to be related. As for other words, the only one I (think) was adopted from Turkish is barkhi... that's all I can remember at this hour. But Turkish did have an influence on Persian and I think supplied the most loanwords after Arabic (or is that French or English?). Sorry I can't provide a concrete answer at the moment. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| William Camden Hexaglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 6261 days ago 1936 posts - 2333 votes Speaks: English*, German, Spanish, Russian, Turkish, French | Message 29 of 88 09 December 2007 at 1:28am | IP Logged | |||||
I was a bit vague in expressing it, as I do not know any Farsi, so I used "went east" rather than "entered Persian". But the name Urdu was transmitted through Persian, to mean "language of the camp". 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| !LH@N Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 6810 days ago 487 posts - 531 votes Speaks: German, Turkish*, English Studies: Serbo-Croatian, Spanish | Message 30 of 88 09 December 2007 at 4:03am | IP Logged | |||||
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I think your friend should work a little more on his Azerbaijani, because I know of people who do listen to TV from Azerbaijan (I don't because I can't get it) and do understand a lot more than 1/4.
Yeah, I've heard about that too. I've read that Ordu went from Turkish to Persian and became finally know as Urdu. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| zhiguli Senior Member Canada Joined 6430 days ago 176 posts - 221 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Russian, Mandarin | Message 31 of 88 09 December 2007 at 5:13am | IP Logged | |||||
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You can watch some clips from Turkmen TV here and here:
And there are quite a few clips on youtube. I've wondered about how intelligible it is to other Oguz language speakers. There's nothing especially weird with the spelling but besides that famous Turkmen "lisp" the pronunciation is a bit "distorted": baş üstüne = baş üssünö (baş üththünö?) mugallym = mollum Aşgabatly = Aşğawatty More examples here and here. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| zhiguli Senior Member Canada Joined 6430 days ago 176 posts - 221 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Russian, Mandarin | Message 32 of 88 09 December 2007 at 5:17am | IP Logged | |||||
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A small list of Turkish words in Persian:
اردک ordak (ördək) duck قاز qâz (qaz) goose قو qu (qu) swan درنا dornâ (durna) crane قاشق qâshoq (qaşıq) spoon قوطی quti (qutu) box اطاق otâq (otaq - oda in Tr.) room چی chi - the suffix çi, used for names of professions and indeed اردو, which is defined as "camp" in one dictionary (Haim) but also "an army camp. an army. the Urdu language of Pakistan." in another (Aryanpur-Kashani). A quick glance through the former (which notes the origin of all non-Persian words) gives the impression that there really aren't that many Turkish loan words in Persian, certainly less than ones I see labeled as French or English.
Haim does not give anything for برخی.
In writing it should be easier. I've also met Turks who could not understand even a simple song in Azeri and were thrown by the smallest differences in vocabulary. But that said most Turks I've met could understand Azeri more or less and some could understand it perfectly, after all there are dialects in Turkey (Erzurum and Kars) that are a lot closer to Azeri than Istanbul Turkish. Thinking of the Americans/Canadians who have trouble understanding various British accents and need subtitles for them I'd say it's a very subjective thing. All the Azeris I have asked, on the other hand (a much smaller sample to be sure) claimed to be able to understand both Istanbul Turkish and Turkmen and even Uzbek with no major problems. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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