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 Language Learning Forum : Cultural Experiences in Foreign Languages |  | |
| blackcherries Groupie Canada Joined 4751 days ago 41 posts - 48 votes Studies: German | Message 1 of 34 30 December 2011 at 12:56am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I'm learning German right now so I'm fascinated by all things German. I love learning about the culture of the language I'm studying. I found some stuff on the net about German culture/ etiquette and while some articles might seem outdated etc. I found one site that seems to know what they are talking about: http://www.germanfortravellers.com/index.php?option=com_cont ent&task=view&id=306&Itemid=977
What I'm dying to know is what's actually true in 2011 in major cities such as Berlin from the natives. Can any native Germans confirm or comment as to the how prevalent some of these things are and in what age groups? Approximate percentage? My questions and comments are in brackets. From the site: Opinions, Attitudes, Customs, Habits Don't put your left hand in your lap when you eat. Germans don't put their hand on their lap while eating. Looks like you are giving the food to the dog, I've been told. (Really? And, if there's no dog around?) When eating or drinking together, wait until someone says Guten Appetit or wants to "anstossen" (click glasses to say "cheers". (Do young people do this too? Teens?) RESTAURANTS Notice on the menu if the tip is included. (Tipping expected now or not?) Don't expect ice cubes in cola, you need to ask for it. (Nobody likes their drinks cold in Germany?) Feel free to sit with strangers in a restaurant, once you determine ob hier noch frei ist (What's "ob hier noch frei ist?; Is it common for people to sit with strangers? Thought Germans are reserved.) Doggiebags are still mostly unknown but feeding your dog under the table and asking for a bowl of water is no problem in most restaurants (some now have signs with a picture of a dog and "Ich muss draussen bleiben"). (So, taking leftover food home is seen as tacky or somthing?) SHOPPING Don't expect people to bag your groceries in the supermarkets. (In Berlin, can one bring their own bag to use while shopping? Or will it look like you're stealing?) WalMart scrapped German expansion - Germans mistrust American version of customer-oriented, ultra-friendly service. (Like Parisiens eh?) Does one still have to ask if one may look around when one goes into a smaller shop? (You really have to ask?) There is no line at the bakery or the butchers. (So, just these places?) HOMES Close the doors. Keeps the heat in the room and prevents drafts - Es zieht! (I've this many times. Are Germans really sensitive to drafts?) Most Germans don't shower every day. (Even teens?) If one visits a private home, do they have the wall of books? For me, that's a dead giveaway that they are middle class. They must think it strange that so many American homes do not have the wall of books; no wonder they think we are ignorant and unintellectual. (Funny. Why are you mid-class if you love books?) BUSSES AND TRAINS Greet the people in your train compartment. The same goes for small restaurants and especially hotel dining rooms. (Really? Greeting everyone in a small restaurant seems time-consuming!) LAUNDRY - CLOTHES You do not have to have a different outfit for every day! (Do women in their 20's re-wear clothes without being made fun-of?) The laundry is often boiled in a lengthy washing process, so some do their laundry infrequently to save energy. (Huh? Don't they just use regular machines? Boil?) FLOWERS Flowers: Give an uneven number. E.g. A dozen roses is one too many and bad luck. When you visit someone with a Mitbringsel in the form of a nice bouquet, make sure you dispose of the wrapper before presenting the flowers, otherwise your hostess will look at you as though you've handed her a dead rat. SHAKING HANDS For young students: Always wait for the older generation to offer their hand first. Male: Always wait for the female to offer her hand first. Don't forget to stand up to shake hands with people! Shake hands with someone you meet . Also when departing especially and definitely with people who are older. (Young people shake hands? Even when meeting someone new in highschool?) PERSONAL SPACE - IN PUBLIC and WAITING IN LINE When in public, there is no private space. When in private - it is huge. Let me explain. When in line, on a street-car, or other crowded place, your personal space starts on the inside of your clothes. (very disconcerting to American males when a matronly Oma leans her chest into your back). The way to keep your place in line when someone gets close is to NOT back away, since that gives them permission to move on up (ahead of you), but rather put your weight on your foot closest to that person (for an American this feels like leaning back into the leaner). (Wow!) People in Austria and Germany do not line up. Push forward, just like they do, if you want to get on the bus, etc. (Ugh, I hate it if it's true.) Do not expect total strangers to smile at you and nod hello. My students always wonder why people in Europe do not do that. I point out that smiling/eye contact can be indications that you want something from the other person. MISCELLANEOUS Do not sit down on the sidewalk or on the floor or in any other public place ( such as the Pergamon) (Seen as dirty?) Be prepared to see dogs in restaurants, on the streetcars and busses, in church, etc. (Boo, I dislike dogs.) Don't be surprised when Germans correct your English! If you want to practice German, you might need to ask specifically for Germans to speak German with you, otherwise they will use the opportunity to practice their English! If they speak dialect, ask them nicely for Hochdeutsch - most can speak it! Bathing daily is not common. Interesting post from the site: It is hard trying to pin down cultural differences between Germany and Northern America . There has been a frequent cultural exchange over the last decades, so that now the icons of each culture, McDonald's and Mercedes Benz, can be found in both places, culminating in the fusion of Chrysler and Daimler Benz. Luckily, one big difference remains. Whereas the American always tries to move the frontier further, the Germans would never do so. Why is that? On first glance, this question can easily be solved, there is no frontier left in Germany , every spot of ground already belongs to someone. But there is more than meets the eye. The keyword is: Problems of insulation. Since freshly built farmhouses somewhere in the outback tend to have badly insulated windows and doors, no German would dream of living there. Besides watching soccer on TV, making fun of the beer of other countries and showing of with economical cars (or with Mercedes Benz, for Germans they don't belong in this category), there is another beloved pastime in Germany : Looking for draughts (ein Zug). What people from other countries usually like (“Hey, open the window, let some fresh air in!”) is the most horrifying thing Germans can think of (well, perhaps losing against some American soccer team would be worse). Due to a genetic misconstruction of the inner ear and the respiratory system in general, Germans develop rich varieties of flu, sinusitis, cold, rheumatism, fever and symptoms the English language lacks expressions for, as soon as the slightest breeze hits them. Luckily, the Germans have always been quite a innovative bunch of people. Companies producing insulating material and glass wool are one of the most flourishing industries in Germany . In fact, every normal German apartment shows a level of insulation that could be transferred to Mars without any air emerging from it, or it might be placed on some abyssal plain without the lodger even taking notice (as long as he doesn't step out on the patio to smoke a cigarette). Of course, this avoidance of fresh air leads to a low level of oxygen in closed buildings. In order to not to have to open the window, any feeling of dizziness is encoded in the second most popular German pastime, having troubles with your blood circulation, in German: Kreislaufstörung . Anyone planning a trip to Germany : better learn this expression by heart and use it a soften as possible. This can be useful: A normal citizen of the world admits, after being horribly drunk at night and after not having enough sleep, that he or she has a hangover. In Germany , one can avoid this guilty plea: That is not a hangover, that is just a Kreislaufstörung . You are not to blame for it, it can happen to anyone. Smoking a pack of cigarettes and feeling sick? Kreislaufstörung . Caught drunk driving? Kreislaufstörung . Falling asleep in a meeting? Kreislaustörung . You see, knowing about this aspect of German culture can come in handy. The art of being sick in Germany now consists of blaming one's ailments evenly on either Kreislaufstörung or on some cold one caught because somewhere a window was left open (e.g. in the taxi cab, preferably Mercedes Benz without air condition). This might be tricky for people being in Germany for the first time, but keep on trying, you'll soon get the hang of it. If not, then you can't concentrate because of ... you guessed it! (Any of it true?) Fascinating stuff. Edited by blackcherries on 30 December 2011 at 12:59am 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| LebensForm Senior Member Austria Joined 5053 days ago 212 posts - 264 votes  Studies: German | Message 2 of 34 30 December 2011 at 3:02am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Ya the closing door thing is true from what I know about my relatives there and as far as the flowers go, apparently one should never give a red rose, as this indicates sexual feelings, go with white. But I too am curious about the accuracy of those comments. I was born in Germany but now live in the US, since the age of 2 so I too am just curious for personal reasons.
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| Kartof Bilingual Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 5069 days ago 391 posts - 550 votes Speaks: English*, Bulgarian*, Spanish Studies: Danish | Message 3 of 34 30 December 2011 at 5:53am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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The fear of drafts is true also for Bulgaria and I'm guessing for most of central and eastern Europe as well.
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| s0fist Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5049 days ago 260 posts - 445 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: Sign Language, German, Spanish, French | Message 4 of 34 30 December 2011 at 8:11am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Is there a problem in Canada with drinks becoming hot? I never understood this but I guess that's either because I gulp down my soft drinks too fast or otherwise don't want them watered down from the ice, so I guess what I'm saying is either ice the cola into cubes or drink faster.:)
Are there actually people who walk into a store and want assistance right away? Do such people exist? Someone confirm whether it's my personal bias, never seen such behaviour in America or Russia. Come on, who likes salesmen.:)
I read some statistics some months back that showed a direct correlation of showering/bathing with proximity to the equator/climate. Can't recall the source atm. Of course personal sweatiness (or being a kid) trumps that, but I'd expect a Canadian to not be surprised by this, even if said Canadian is a sweaty, greasy kid/teen.
So time consuming, how do Americans bother (teenage girls excluded obviously) to remember this crap, so much wasted memory and effort, hundreds of people you meet everyday, e v e r y day? First few months of trying to follow this rule I was verging on suicidal/mass-murder thoughts, also made me think Americans are wunderkinds of mnemotechnics.:)
True for Russian culture (both flowers and shaking of hands), is it same in Germany?
This tends to correlate to how rural/urban the population is IIRC. Can some one from Germany, also comment on how much of Germany/Austria is still rural.
I'm starting to think I'm German. Methinks, this is not prevalent in Russia despite the cold climate. Btw, I'm not from Germany or of German ancestry, no more than most Russians, which is not a small percentage in and of itself probably. Definitely, blaming Kreislaufstörung as soon as I manage to pronounce it.:)) Despite feeling like most of the OP's points can be resolved by applying some common sense and factoring in some points for how outdated the guide seems, quite an interesting thread idea -- would be interesting to hear some comments from actual Germans on the validity of some, if not all, of the OP's notes. Humorous anecdotes of Germans would also be fun. Edited by s0fist on 30 December 2011 at 8:14am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| RogerK Triglot Groupie Austria Joined 5078 days ago 92 posts - 181 votes Speaks: English*, German, Italian Studies: Portuguese | Message 5 of 34 30 December 2011 at 9:20am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Hi Blackcherries your post deserves a reply.
I live in Austria near the Swiss border but I did live in Southern Germany for 4 years and regularly visit friends there. I will note my observation and any comment next to each point in your very thorough post. It will be interesting to see what any native Germans have to say about these things.
My understanding is that this custom is very old and relates to the concealing of weapons. If you have your free hand on the table you cannot be hiding a weapon.
True. I do not know about the teenagers.
Tipping is still expected but usually you just round upwards perhaps a couple of Euros. The higher the bill the more you tip but you are not expected to tip a specific percentage.
True. They used to have beer warmers and I seen men ask to have a dash of warm water put into their beer. As an Australian I consider this incomprehensible. For those that do not know in an Australian bar a beer glass is kept in a freezer until needed.
True. Often you enter a cafe and the only free chairs are at occupied tables so you do not have any choice but to sit with strangers.
Mostly true but if you only eat half of your pizza for example the restaurant will sometimes ask if you wish to have the rest wrapped up to be taken home.
True. Many people including ourselves have plastic boxes which fold up and you take them with you to do your grocery shopping. If you only have a few items to purchase you should use your own bag. I place the items in my bag and empty them on the conveyer belt at the cash register. This system is fantastic, going through the check out is a very fast process in Germany and Austria but do not delay in doing your own packing because the cashier will not wait for you finish and another person’s items will begin to be pushed down next to your own.
I do not know about this one but usually if are friendly generally the other person will be friendly in return. And, I dislike fake friendliness myself.
When you enter a shop you say hello, sometimes it is polite to ask if you may look around a smaller shop and always say goodbye and thankyou when leaving even if you have not purchased anything.
Pretty much true but you do wait your turn and you know when it is your turn or not. Queuing up is not one of a German’s/Austrian’s strong suits. You have to stand your ground otherwise they will just barge through.
True. This is a very strange peculiarity. It can be 30 degrees (Celsius) and after sport they will put on light jacket or make sure their back is protected in some way to prevent their kidneys cooling down or being affected by a breeze. It is better to pass out through stuffy air than to have a draft. This is a very strange peculiarity.
Not true. Most Germans do shower every day the ones I know certainly do.
I do not know their attitude towards books on the wall but I personally would think it strange if a home did not have books in it.
True. You say hello when you enter any establishment. This doesn’t mean you walk around and shake everyone’s hand.
True. I am neither female nor in my 20’s so I cannot comment about them but my guess is school girls may say something but adults generally would not. You also must realise Europeans wonder about the plastic appearance portrayed by many North Americans. Who you are is more important than what you appear to be.
Not true. The washing is not boiled. In fact they are quite particular that the machine is set on the correct cycle at the correct temperature. Washing is done perhaps once per week. I must say German washing machines are very very good. We went to the trouble of taking one back to Australia, when it needed to be repaired the repairman commented how good the machine was. The machines only have a cold water input and heat the water itself, they are front loaders and wash the clothing softer than a typical Australian top loader.
This is new to me so I do not know.
You wrap the flowers up nicely and do not present them in plain paper. The florist will do this for you.
You always shake hands, because this is a given I have not noticed a protocol but you always stand when shaking hands, this is expected in Australia too.
Always.
I do not know about the school kids.
True, as I mentioned earlier you have to stand your ground.
True and I hate it too. However I live in a less populated area, the people here are friendly and more polite and are less likely to push and shove.
Not true for where I live, everyone greats everyone. If you walk down the road even a small child playing on their own will say hello. This has more to do with the population. The higher the population the less chance there is of this happening. If you walking along a path in the country side everyone will greet you and this is true for Austria, Germany and Italy but in the city nobody will greet you.
Not true. I have thousands of people seated on steps and on the ground outside. You may be correct regarding on the floor inside a public place but I would say this to be true anywhere.
True. I still find it disconcerting.
Not true for me but my German is quite good. My guess is that people and not just Germans do this because it is easier for them to speak English than it is for them to try to understand your German.
Most likely true.
Not true and unfair to say something like this.
Not true in totally. There are many adventurous Germans who spent a lot time in various outbacks, however central Europe is a cold place in winter and it is unpleasant when there is a draft in a house in winter.
I think is a joke.
I do not know about the genetic misconstruction.
Probably possible.
Kreislaufstörung is word you must know and use to be fully understood.
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 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6706 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 6 of 34 30 December 2011 at 1:24pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I would mention a few health related things more: many Germans believe in homeopathy and spa bathing. In my country we have our share of new age people and öko fanatics, but I have yet to meet a Dane who believe that dluting and diluting and diluting and diluting and diluting a drop of something results in anything that could have an effect on your health. And generally we tend to believe that water that tastes bad and smells bad IS bad.
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| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5337 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 7 of 34 30 December 2011 at 3:04pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I would add that they are very keen on protecting the environment. 25 years ago I stopped by a McDonalds and was quite surprised that they demanded that everything be recycled. No shoving the tray into the garbage can all mixed up. I have never seen that anywhere else, even after most other countries are now also keen on protecting the environment.
I would also add a cleanliness, tidyness and orderliness that I have seen in no other country with the exception of Switzerland. And what surprized me highly, it is considered normal to be naked in public saunas together with perfect strangers of both sexes. I can still remember the shock of sitting alone in a hotel sauna in Hamburg in 1992, and then a German guy entered, dropped his towel, and was as naked as the day he was born. Edited by Solfrid Cristin on 30 December 2011 at 3:05pm 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5384 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 8 of 34 30 December 2011 at 3:44pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I realize this sounds dirty, but I think you could say that of every country. I've read that kind of statement about other countries too, but it's probably universal. I would suspect most of the people I know (in Canada) wash everyday, but when I think of some of my in-laws, I'm sure many of them don't. I look around on the bus, and I'm sure a lot of people don't wash everyday. Actually, a Japanese friend of mine once told me she read that most Canadians don't shower or bath everyday. The implication is obviously that this seems gross, but although the Japanese are generally clean, I bet most of them don't wash everyday either. It's just a question of averages. While most younger, more educated people probably do wash everyday, the poorer, less educated or older populations probably don't. It certainly isn't unhealthy to skip a day, and it's fairly recent in human history that people actually CAN wash everyday. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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