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The Awesome Difficulty of Korean, Finnish | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| druckfehler Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4860 days ago 1181 posts - 1912 votes  Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Korean Studies: Persian | Message 529 of 559 01 November 2013 at 11:08pm | IP Logged | |||||
Sounds great! I hope you get the job.
From what I've seen there were quite a few mistakes (presumably forgotten words or spelling issues) on the SBS VOD site. It's definitely not standard written language, so don't get too frustrated if you can't figure some of it out. Seems very difficult to work with the transcripts without watching the drama at the same time, too. It's hard to catch the context just from the writing (of course) and as Korean is very context- dependent... Of course they're still a great study ressource and I plan to somehow integrate them into my watching experience. Maybe read a bit, then watch, or use the transcript to check stuff I didn't understand from listening. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Evita Tetraglot Senior Member Latvia learnlatvian.info Joined 6544 days ago 734 posts - 1036 votes Speaks: Latvian*, English, German, Russian Studies: Korean, Finnish | Message 530 of 559 04 November 2013 at 1:41pm | IP Logged | |||||
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What you described has been exactly my experience when trying to read scripts. They all have mistakes and I hate it from the point of view of "how can Koreans treat their language this way!", not because it impedes my studying a lot. I'm not in any danger of learning any wrong grammar constructions or vocabulary (I take care to learn those only from trusted sources) so I basically don't worry about it. If I can't figure out something, there's always the next sentence. I just move along.
As for watching the episode at the same time, I've done it a few times with Master's Sun when I had the transcript but the subtitles hadn't come out yet. I never got very far though because I just didn't understand the Korean sentences. I also did it a bit with Giant (of which I've still only watched 4 or 5 episodes). But it only works for me when I'm watching an episode for the first time. If I've already seen it then I will just use the English subtitles together with the Korean text. Usually I can remember who the speaker was, or sometimes it doesn't matter. As for Heirs, I have the idea to try reading the transcript along with the recap on DB. I haven't tried it yet though. And speaking of what I did over the weekend, I must admit I spent the time catching up on Secret instead of reading transcripts or otherwise studying. Oh well. My Anki backlog is not much better but not worse either. I'm closing in on 2700 words but I'm not there yet. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5527 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 531 of 559 04 November 2013 at 3:17pm | IP Logged | |||||
That reminds me of something that really annoyed me on music shows when I first started (and still does somewhat). Occasionally the on-screen lyrics won't match the audio and the reason seems to be that the on-screen lyrics are displaying "more proper Korean" at times rather than the words actually being spoken by the singers. Usually this is just expanding contractions (singer says "넌" but the on-screen lyrics say "너는"), but I've occasionally seen it with words like "생얼" (spoken) converted to "민낯" (written) in lyrics as well. Which leads me to another quirk I've noticed. Korean always seem to say the word "계 란" for egg (when referring to an egg as a cooking ingredient, anyway), yet the on- screen text on variety TV shows always seems to convert this to "달걀" instead, even when quoting what someone said. I probably wouldn't have noticed if it only happened here and there, but it happens so regularly that I find it quite odd. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Evita Tetraglot Senior Member Latvia learnlatvian.info Joined 6544 days ago 734 posts - 1036 votes Speaks: Latvian*, English, German, Russian Studies: Korean, Finnish | Message 532 of 559 06 November 2013 at 10:51pm | IP Logged | |||||
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The Naver dictionary doesn't recognize "생얼" as a word, that's probably the reason it's not written on the screen :) And yes, I've had the two words for "egg" in my Anki deck for forever and never knew the difference between them. The same goes for the two temperatures 온도 and 기온.
Speaking of variety shows, I almost never watch them but last weekend I watched the first episode of Grandpas over flowers. Oh my, that was some text overload. Why do they put so much text on the screen? As if it were a comic where you need to describe what's happening even though you can see anyway what is happening. That's so irritating, it feels like viewer manipulation. And it so happens that I haven't seen any of the grandpas in any dramas so it was quite boring for me. I've never been a fan of reality shows. On the other hand, I've heard about the upcoming Noonas over flowers and I've seen 이승기 quite a lot so I'm curious how he'll do as an errand boy in Croatia. As for some updates, I'm happy to say I got the job. I feel quite relieved even though the contracts are not signed yet. I've been busy with work and other things so I haven't had much time for studying but I had almost finished chapter 12 of my Korean book. I even added some new words like "grass" and "to shave" to my Anki deck. Here's a random thing. A couple of months ago I added the word 답답하다 to Anki. I had never noticed it before but since then I've been hearing it everywhere in dramas, it seems quite a common word. I guess Koreans are frustrated a lot, lol. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5527 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 533 of 559 07 November 2013 at 12:40am | IP Logged | |||||
That's the kind of situation where Hanja knowledge comes in really useful (and I happen to already know the Hanja that make up those two words). The 온 in both words is 溫 (warmth); 도 = 度 (level, degree); 기 = 氣 (air). (NOTE: 氣 is also the character that refers to one's "Chi" (pronounced 기 instead in Korean) as in the concept of the "energy" flowing through one's body, but the other meaning of "air" is the one at work in this word.) Essentially 온도 refers to temperature as a measured value (like 속도 does for speed, 습도 for humidity, etc.) and 기온 specifically refers to air temperature.
답답해 is extremely common in music lyrics as well. One usage that comes to mind immediately is the opening line of "Mr. Bang Bang" by Dalshabet: 정말 답답해 / 왜 말을 못해? = (This is) really frustrating / Why can't you (just) say (it)? Edited by Warp3 on 07 November 2013 at 12:47am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Evita Tetraglot Senior Member Latvia learnlatvian.info Joined 6544 days ago 734 posts - 1036 votes Speaks: Latvian*, English, German, Russian Studies: Korean, Finnish | Message 534 of 559 10 November 2013 at 10:50pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I want to learn some hanja eventually but right now it's not happening. My goal for this year was to learn 100 characters but at the moment my spreadsheet only has 18 and I can't even say I know all of them since I don't use Anki for this purpose.
Speaking of Anki, my backlog seems to have become permanent. On the bright side, I still add some new cards every day so I finally hit the 2700 mark. Also speaking of Anki, I resumed work on my sentence deck that I had been neglecting in the last few months. As I was entering some sentences from my grammar book, I noticed a '라서' construction. I looked through the TOC and didn't see it, TTMIK also had never mentioned it so I tried the internet. I found the explanation here. Turns out that it's a combination of 이다 and 아/어서. Then I checked my textbook again and sure enough, this construction was mentioned in the chapter about 서. Apparently it's mostly used in the spoken Korean. And what I also learned about 서, this time about the meaning 'and', is that it can often be omitted. That was such a revelation for me because I had noticed verbs seemingly conjugated in the present tense but not really and I was wondering if that was a specific construction or what. Now it all makes much more sense. I did work with the Heirs transcript a bit as well but I kept thinking I should work on Anki instead. What's the point of reading and adding words to Anki if I'm so far behind on my reviews. I also listened to the Finnish radio on a couple of occasions at work. I have forgotten many words but I haven't lost the ability to pick them out from an audio so I looked several of them up on Wiktionary. It's just a little something to keep my Finnish alive. As for German, I decided to keep working on that word list that I started preparing a while ago. I had almost 1200 words in the list and today I read them all out loud in order to remember them better. My goal will be to add at least 10 words every day but the average should be at least 20. In addition to that, I will be listening to the radio when I can and maybe reading a newspaper when I feel like it. I decided not to do the November team challenge after all. Finishing the textbook is unrealistic taking into account the time I will have to devote to German, and anyway those challenges don't really motivate me. I learn best when I do whatever activities I feel like doing, not what I have been challenged to do. This is turning out to be a long post. I wanted to mention one final thing about internet radios on my phone. They are very convenient but sometimes (often) they buffer too much and you can't listen comfortably. Lately this has been true especially for the time period when I come home from work - none of my Korean, German, or Finnish radios are working well. To my surprise, it's a station from Argentina that always works well when the others don't. It's called Portal Argentina so I've been getting some Spanish input. It seems like they talk about travel all the time. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Evita Tetraglot Senior Member Latvia learnlatvian.info Joined 6544 days ago 734 posts - 1036 votes Speaks: Latvian*, English, German, Russian Studies: Korean, Finnish | Message 535 of 559 16 November 2013 at 10:31am | IP Logged | |||||
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This week was not very productive. I fell ill on Monday so... Not a lot of energy for studying. I didn't make any progress at all on my German word list but I did read a couple of articles on derwesten.de yesterday. My German reading is rusty so I should do that more.
I also found out that a colleague of mine is studying German at the Goethe Institute here in Riga. They're using the Schritte International books and I borrowed books 2 and 3 from her to review the basics. There's not much to report for Korean. I'm still struggling with Anki, I started lesson 13 in my textbook and I worked a bit on some song lyrics. I also watched "How to address people in Korean" part 1 and part 2 on TTMIK. I already knew how to use most of those terms but these are pretty nice videos for beginners in Korean. I started watching King's Family again this week while I was sick. The first episodes were kind of boring so I had dropped it but now I think I'm going to stick with it. I had originally planned to watch it without subtitles but I'm not going to do it, I would be missing too much of the dialogue and I want to know what's going on. Edited by Evita on 16 November 2013 at 10:33am 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Evita Tetraglot Senior Member Latvia learnlatvian.info Joined 6544 days ago 734 posts - 1036 votes Speaks: Latvian*, English, German, Russian Studies: Korean, Finnish | Message 536 of 559 24 November 2013 at 11:13pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I wanted to review the German present perfect tense and when to use 'sein' or 'haben' today and I found this wonderful blog. I don't know if all the other German learners already know about it but I think it's very good even if the author goes off-topic a little too often for my taste. So far I've read only the two articles about the past tense but I might read (or skim through) all of them to quickly review the grammar.
I did work on my German word list a bit this week as well but I've decided to abandon it for now because it doesn't help me. The main idea behind the list was to eventually add translations and import it all into Anki to create a shared deck but that can wait. Creating a good deck means not missing any essential vocabulary and that means trying to add duplicates over and over again (because I don't remember if I already added the particular word or not) and I would rather use that time doing something else. But I will come back to it sometime next year because a deck like that doesn't exist for German (I checked) and it would be very useful. My Korean vocabulary deck has been downloaded already more than 2200 times and it follows the same concept. Speaking of Korean, I finally finished reading a whole Iyagi lesson. It was the first one, about seats for disabled persons. I remember trying to read it before, last winter maybe, and stopping at the sentence that contained the word '위한' because I couldn't figure it out. I had already listened to the TTMIK lesson about '위해서' but the lesson didn't have any examples with the '위한' form so I didn't realize it's the same expression. I thought it had something to do with 'above' and it didn't make any sense so I just stopped. Now I tried reading it on the Wiki site where every sentence has a translation and I got through it all in several short sessions. Maybe it took me half an hour in total, maybe a bit more. Anyway, I'm glad I finally finished one. I already started another one but it's not close to the finish yet. I also finished lesson 13 and tried to do some Anki reviews. My backlog for the last week has been about 400 cards which is a lot but I'm not too worried about it. I've decreased the number of daily new cards to 3 and that's it. I'll keep doing the reviews when I feel like it so eventually the backlog should start to disappear. If it doesn't then maybe I'll stop learning any new words for a while. In any case, I'm not considering dropping Anki. I'll be going slowly but steadily. If I don't review the words I'll forget them very quickly. I won't get to 3500 words by next March but that's okay, 3000 words would be a good result as well. What else... Yeah, my life is still kind of hectic. I need to prepare for the job change (I'm starting the new one on December 16th) and I'm still missing a lot of furniture and appliances in my new apartment. Hopefully the kitchen will be ready by Christmas, then maybe I can start thinking about the living room. 3 persons have voted this message useful |
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