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Russian spelling | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Русский |  | |
| 236factorial Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 6526 days ago 192 posts - 213 votes  Speaks: Mandarin, English*, French Studies: Spanish | Message 25 of 37 27 June 2011 at 7:15pm | IP Logged | ||
I agree. Sometimes, a certain Russian stress pattern "feels" better, but most of the time, I have to look the stress pattern up. This, of course, is also a problem in English, where I've done several embarrasing mispronunciations in public discourses (e.g. 3rd grade: determined = /'deh tur ,maind/), despite being a native speaker. I mix up the "a" and "o" all the time. I don't even know why - the other reduced vowels don't give me nearly as much trouble. The seemingly random placement of the soft sign in numbers was difficult to remember at first, but as time went on, they became more or less naturalized in my brain. I was wondering, whether Russian schoolchildren also go through spelling quizzes/textbooks (I imagine they do). Are there spelling bees? In the US, I remember having spelling tests weekly up until 5th or 6th grade. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5042 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 26 of 37 27 June 2011 at 7:58pm | IP Logged | ||
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We studied spelling for many years. In primary scool we studied general, simple spelling
rules and a few rules of punctuation. Then in the fifth grade we learnt (and revised) all the rules about spelling roots. In the sixth grade we quickly learnt rules about prefixes and moved to morphology. In the sixth and seventh grades we learnt morphology of each part of speech, especially participles and gerunds, which were completely new to us and which have the most tricky rules of spelling and punctuation. In these two grades we considered suffixes and endings, of course. A half the fifth grade we spent for syntax and punctuation in general. The eighth grade was dedicated to simple sentence, and the ninth was dedicated to complex sentence. The main focus was on punctuation. We did exercises and wrote dictations by the end of the school. Edited by Марк on 27 June 2011 at 8:04pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| QiuJP Triglot Senior Member Singapore Joined 5841 days ago 428 posts - 597 votes Speaks: Mandarin*, EnglishC2, French Studies: Czech, GermanB1, Russian, Japanese | Message 27 of 37 25 September 2011 at 5:29pm | IP Logged | ||
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Russian spelling is indeed difficult. However, it is still way more logical than those
of French and English. The difficulties for a learner of Russian, in terms of the orthography are: 1) Akanie (should I write "a" or "o" for this unstressed position pronounced as "a"?) 2) Ikanie (should I write "э" "я" "и" or "е" for this unstressed position pronounced as "и"?) 3) The voicing of voiceless consonants and the devoicing of voiced consonants (which consonant should I write when two consonants appear together or at the end of a word?) 4) Identifying a soft consonant (Should I write a hard vowel of a soft vowel? / Should I write a soft sign after this consonant?) 5) Stress (This actually makes spelling difficult when combined with the first and second above mentioned issues) Overall, as a learner, I remembered a written form and a spoken form of the words I learned. This tactic worked for difficult languages like Chinese, English and French and is more effective for Russian as it is largely phonetic. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5042 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 28 of 37 25 September 2011 at 5:40pm | IP Logged | ||
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Identifying of a soft consonant isn't a question of orthography because it simply
reflects the pronunciation. So, that's a problem of hearing and pronouncing, not spelling itself. The general rule is very simple: you should write a soft vowel or a soft sign after a soft consonant. Edited by Марк on 25 September 2011 at 5:46pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| QiuJP Triglot Senior Member Singapore Joined 5841 days ago 428 posts - 597 votes Speaks: Mandarin*, EnglishC2, French Studies: Czech, GermanB1, Russian, Japanese | Message 29 of 37 25 September 2011 at 6:04pm | IP Logged | ||
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But you can only have good spelling only after you can identify the soft consonant,
right? I tried to do a dictation and I realized that I wrote the hard vowel instead of the soft version for quite a number of words. I can write these words correctly only after some memorization, before my ear can hear the difference of hard and soft consonants at a rapid pace. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5042 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 30 of 37 25 September 2011 at 6:24pm | IP Logged | ||
Of course, but it is true for any sounds one can't distinguish, for example voiced and voiceless. You should listen slowly first. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| QiuJP Triglot Senior Member Singapore Joined 5841 days ago 428 posts - 597 votes Speaks: Mandarin*, EnglishC2, French Studies: Czech, GermanB1, Russian, Japanese | Message 31 of 37 26 September 2011 at 9:19am | IP Logged | ||
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Марк, I think it is more of my learning style to remember the orthography before I can differate the sounds, because I am a visual learner. Therefore, the knowledge of when to write the soft sign/vowel is critical to me and I remember it more as an orthogarphy rule which I must observe. Otherwise, it will take me a long time to adjust to the correct spellig/pronouncation, as in the case of my English.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 5042 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 32 of 37 26 September 2011 at 9:35am | IP Logged | ||
I see. I meant that for example a spelling reform could make all the unstressed o replaced by a, but elimination of soft sign and soft vowels won't be a good idea. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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