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A few beginner questions | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
| Ant1234 Newbie United Kingdom Joined 3570 days ago 3 posts - 3 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 1 of 10 06 February 2015 at 6:35pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hi. I'm currently learning French and it's my first time really learning a foreign language and I've been learning now for about four months.
I'm learning on my own, as opposed to a formal course, and my routine consists of: Roughly 25mins per day on 'duolingo' A two hour session per week with a private tutor About two hours a week working on stuff related to my tutoring session. A few hours a week watching French TV programmes (with subtitles) I've few basic questions: I really want to make the most of my tutoring sessions, which I think should be speaking related. However, my spoken French isn't great and I'm struggling a bit. Does anyone have any good exercises we can go through that may have helped them? We've done the 'situational stuff' like being in a restaurant or on a shopping trip and I'm ok at that, but as soon as it goes in to general conversational 'ad hoc' speaking I'm just at a loss. Any comments on my routine at all? I'm happy with the amount I'm doing and wouldn't want to increase any but I'm wondering if I'm making an effective use of my time. I suppose I'm just looking for tips and advice really as this isn't something I've done before and, as I'm driving this myself, I may not be 'doing it right' If that makes sense :) Thanks 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6571 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes  Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 2 of 10 06 February 2015 at 7:06pm | IP Logged | ||
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You have to give yourself time, both for learning the language, which is something that takes long, and for finding out how you like to learn. I think your routine looks fine. If I'd suggest anything, it'd be to spend more time reading. If you have a device where you can download and read Kindle books, I'd heartily recomment to try and find a beginner's reader (such as this one) and read it together with a pop-up dictionary (you can buy a French-English dictionary in the Kindle Store that lets you translate words by tapping them). If your French is strong enough, you could even try a young adult's novel and work through it with the popup dictionary.
The idea is that you acquire language when you're able to understand phrases you hear or read. Reading a book is a great way to do this, since you have more time than you have when watching a program on TV. As you have probably noticed, it's difficult to parse the stream of French into words as you hear them, meaning you might fail to understand even if you know the words. This ability will develop over time, though. I'm of the opinion that in the beginning stages, input is more important than output. Don't worry so much if you can't speak well, focus on trying to understand. As your comprehension grows, you'll find that your ability to produce French follows, although it will always lag behind, meaning you'll be able to understand things that you cannot produce yourself. That's natural. Anyway, the most important thing is that you're doing activities you can keep doing. Don't torture yourself through things that sap your willpower and erode your motivation. I think you're on the right path. If you enjoy what you're doing, keep it up! If you notice that you're dreading some part of your routine, don't be afraid to replace it with something else (just don't drop it and replace it with something non-French-related). There are loads of different techniques for studying, and we have loads of people here willing to tell you about them. :) Edited by Ari on 06 February 2015 at 8:11pm 6 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5370 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 3 of 10 06 February 2015 at 7:40pm | IP Logged | ||
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To jumpstart the speaking, ask your tutor to bring some level-appropriate texts. As you go through a text together, have him ask you questions about it (what is X doing, why did Y leave, do you think Z is right, etc.), which will force you to listen to spoken language and to produce an answer orally. The questions, the text and your answers then become a great way to gauge your knowledge, and to identify and fix issues.
3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| iguanamon Pentaglot Senior Member Virgin Islands Speaks: Ladino Joined 5251 days ago 2241 posts - 6731 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French) | Message 4 of 10 06 February 2015 at 7:50pm | IP Logged | ||
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Duolinguo has become the default beginner's course in the last year or so. I've never used it and know little about it but it seems to provide a basic introduction to a language. You are following a multi-track approach which will help you give you synergy.
Sometimes it's hard for experienced learners to put themselves in a beginner's shoes. Ari has given great advice. My doubts about the program you have presented are with the tutoring and the lack of a more thorough course. There are a blue million courses out there for French- Assimil, French in Action, FSI, DLI. My advice is to choose one and add it in to your mix- either now or after duolinguo. About tutoring, I've always found tutoring to be more effective after I have reached a level where I can speak and listen without hesitating and pausing constantly, basically when I have got the present tense down and the most basic verbs. That being said, Benny Lewis recommends doing this from the first day. The bottom line is, if you feel that you are getting value for money, if you feel that you are enjoying it, then keep doing the tutoring sessions. If not, wait until you reach a stage where tutoring will be more effective. Your tutor should be used for things you can't do on your own. Don't overlook the power of parallel texts (French on the left, English on the right on a page). At this stage, it is a little bit easier to read using a parallel text when all you have to do is glance over to check your comprehension. If I were a raw beginner and had the computer chops to set it up, I would add in emk's Spanish, a little subs2srs experiment. The idea is that you take a TV series on DVD with English and French and a French audio track and make srs cards with audio out of them. I believe that if a beginner could combine this with a basic course, it would be highly effective. It helps listening, reading and making your own connections by puzzling out the language yourself. Don't overload yourself. There are so many resources available for learning French, you are spoiled for choice. Engaging the language outside of courses will help you to avoid the course trap- feeling you have to do them all/getting stuck at course level and not advancing to native materials. Despite course hype, realize that you are engaged on a long journey. The key is persistence and consistency. Being persistent will keep you in the game until you can be consistent. Being consistent will win the game. EDIT: Welcome to the forum, Ant1234! Edited by iguanamon on 06 February 2015 at 8:29pm 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6571 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 5 of 10 06 February 2015 at 8:07pm | IP Logged | ||
I considered this, too. I agree with iguanamon that tutoring is most effective after one has reached a certain level. However, the reason I didn't mention it in my post is that for a beginner, routine and motivation are the biggest problems. Having a weekly session where you're held responsible for your progress and where you'll feel the need to impress can be a great aid in this. I myself don't use tutors until pretty late in my studies, basically to "activate" my passive knowledge, but I wouldn't underestimate the importance of a regular "checkup" to keep the studying going. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4696 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 6 of 10 07 February 2015 at 3:06am | IP Logged | ||
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Tutoring in the beginning is much less to be corrected for your mistakes all the time
(although that should also happen) but more to get the confidence that you can actually manage to communicate with a native speaker. If you're good enough at the basics (HAVE YOUR TUTOR CONFIRM IT) ask them to set the bar a little higher. Did your brain fry? Good, you learned something. General ad hoc speaking sucks because you don't know what you have to talk about. Pick slightly more complicated material, use cartoons, simple newspaper articles, anything that holds your interest. I once did a Romanian lesson all on culinary recipes! (I want to learn how to make mici :D) Edited by tarvos on 07 February 2015 at 3:07am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Ant1234 Newbie United Kingdom Joined 3570 days ago 3 posts - 3 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 7 of 10 07 February 2015 at 10:23am | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks for all the advice. The reading exercises sound good. I'll download that book 'Voyage en France' I've also started following a couple of French people on twitter.
My tutor isn't really a professional tutor, she's a student teaching to make a bit extra cash. Although she is multilingual, and so knows the process of learning a language and, best of all, French is her native language. Our sessions are pretty informal, a lot of fun and really useful. It's just unfortunate that I'll only have her for another few months before she leaves and so I'm trying to find out how to make the most of the time I've got with her. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4696 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 8 of 10 07 February 2015 at 10:39am | IP Logged | ||
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Do exercises that are a little bit harder than what you can comfortably do. Too hard =
discouraging, too easy = useless. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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