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Snowflake’s Mandarin Log | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Snowflake Senior Member United States Joined 5951 days ago 1032 posts - 1233 votes  Studies: Mandarin | Message 385 of 740 12 April 2011 at 10:59pm | IP Logged | ||
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My iPod Touch is currently loaded with audio for 2 CLO levels, the current one that I am working and the prior. I replaced the echo material for the first half of the last level with their "normal" speed dialogs. I don't necessarily know the dialogs well enough to do shadowing yet, so am pausing the material to do echoing. Using the regular speed version is to help shake me out of speaking unnaturally slow. It also allows for pauses in different places than the recorded echo material. And there is a speed element to fluency that I would like to try to address rather than assume that speed will naturally come later.
At this point, I am thinking that echoing/chorusing/shadowing needs to be a substantial portion of my self study time….maybe half? Characters are still on the back burner. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Snowflake Senior Member United States Joined 5951 days ago 1032 posts - 1233 votes Studies: Mandarin | Message 386 of 740 15 April 2011 at 10:51pm | IP Logged | ||
The above was written 17 January 2011 at 4:47 pm in message 335 of this log. It is quoted because I now see echoing/chorusing dialogs while running around, and shadowing which inherently has you briskly moving about, as ...filling/creating the sea of reinforcements while learning to speak the language ...addressing all 5 points mentioned above Or in other words, here's your drivers' license, a car in excellent working order with a full gas tank, the car keys and money to buy more gas when you run out. Update; Shadowing is more potent than echoing. One of the things I have some problems with is when to use yao4 and hui4. Shadowing really highlights that. It also highlights use or non-use of ne, le, etc. Edited by Snowflake on 15 April 2011 at 11:10pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Snowflake Senior Member United States Joined 5951 days ago 1032 posts - 1233 votes Studies: Mandarin | Message 387 of 740 16 April 2011 at 5:09pm | IP Logged | ||
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Really have to laugh about perception of accents.... I mentioned concentrating on echoing to my overseas Taiwanese chat partner and he wondered about my material. So he got to hear the latest dialog and look at the transcript. He thought the accent was 标准 (biao1zhun3). He also thought the speakers are from the mainland. I had to explain that 普通话 learners tend to prefer Beijing or other northern accents. He mentioned....
北方的口音会比较"卷舌"/ 北方的口音會比較"捲舌" bei3jing1 de kou3yin hui4 bi3jiao4 juan3she2 舌头会卷起来 /舌頭會捲起來 she2tou hui4 juan3 qi3lai2 He gave his imitation of a northern accent which included the 儿 sound and sh (his sh's are closer to s). Anyhow, he agrees on the need to work with a wide range of accents. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Snowflake Senior Member United States Joined 5951 days ago 1032 posts - 1233 votes Studies: Mandarin | Message 388 of 740 17 April 2011 at 7:30pm | IP Logged | ||
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I realized that this particular CLO level has more lessons without dialogs than with and so listened to more lessons without dialogs. One lesson had two words I didn't already know, the other had one. What was slightly more beneficial was hearing different usage. I will have to pick and choose lessons, without dialogs, to listen to to see whether I may be missing anything substantial. For instance, I should listen to lessons devoted to say grammar. I'm less concerned about missing some vocabulary here and there...my vocabulary is already all over the place. While hearing the usage is helpful, I still think it's more important for me to cover as much echoing/chorusing/shadowing ground as possible.
Even though it may a while before finishing all the CLO levels, I'm starting to think about what to do afterward. While it would be nice if CLO had advanced level material, it's probably a good thing in that I will have to work with other material which will have different strengths. I'm leaning toward working with speed. That of course would be in conjunction with building vocabulary, etc. All the intermediate and advanced level podcast dialogs that I've tried so far seem to slow down the speaking speed a little, with the exception of PopUpChinese. While the speed can be daunting, the Professor mentions that if you can comprehend at that faster speed then you are setting your sights too low in looking for slower material to shadow (sorry don't have the citing for this). 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Snowflake Senior Member United States Joined 5951 days ago 1032 posts - 1233 votes Studies: Mandarin | Message 389 of 740 20 April 2011 at 3:53am | IP Logged | ||
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I've been having problems getting the tones and cadence right for 无法理解 (wu2fa3 li3jie3) and asked the Malaysian fellow to say it. He asked how I was planning to use that phrase. It turns out that wu2fa3 li3jie3 is not used in daily conversation as it is considered flowery, basically like breaking out in poetry. This was a surprise given that the phrase is from an animated Japanese movie, "Ponyo on the Cliff By the Sea", in a scene where a mother explains something to her 5 year old son. Edited by Snowflake on 20 April 2011 at 4:17pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Snowflake Senior Member United States Joined 5951 days ago 1032 posts - 1233 votes Studies: Mandarin | Message 390 of 740 25 April 2011 at 2:20am | IP Logged | ||
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OK, I started echoing CLO dialogs 74 days ago. I've been trying to "motor" through the current level, not necessarily a good idea. Did not attend a group yesterday. Today went to the group that I usually go to on Sat and heard quite a few 儿s this time. My brain is mush between echoing and the number of hours spent today listening to what felt like a gazillion native speakers. Edited by Snowflake on 25 April 2011 at 5:05am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Snowflake Senior Member United States Joined 5951 days ago 1032 posts - 1233 votes Studies: Mandarin | Message 391 of 740 28 April 2011 at 2:38am | IP Logged | ||
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I've been casually listening to the regular lessons in this level during my commute time. There's so much vocabulary and comprehension material that I am going to have to start using CLO pretty the way it is meant to be used. Looking at the stats for the following levels, it's going to have to continue that way. All of those levels have substantially less echo material than lessons. So...now need to rework my routine.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Snowflake Senior Member United States Joined 5951 days ago 1032 posts - 1233 votes Studies: Mandarin | Message 392 of 740 30 April 2011 at 10:55pm | IP Logged | ||
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I was feeling overwhelmed with the new vocabulary in this level which are not used in the dialogs or summaries. The summaries are basically little stories or short essays. Echoing and shadowing seems to be one of the best ways for me to remember vocabulary as well as sentence patterns. I'm going back to the beginning of this level and redoing it pretty much the way the previous one was done. I still need to figure what my routine should be for the lessons without separate dialogs or summaries. The lessons basically have two native speakers talking to each other in Mandarin with a native English speaker saying any English translations. There is very little English in these lessons. I may be able to splice the lessons to be dialogs between the native speakers and echo that. The splicing could be a fair amount of work though. Edited by Snowflake on 02 May 2011 at 8:33pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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