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Swedish on Livemocha - SOS!!! | ||
Tags: Live Mocha | Swedish | ||
 Language Learning Forum : Skandinavisk & Nordisk |  | |
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5837 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes  Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 17 of 29 03 May 2009 at 11:35am | IP Logged |
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@Taka - jag tror att översättningarna bara visas för den som angivit svenska som modersmål.
Om du själv har angett kinesiska så kanske du har sett engelska ord med förslag till en kinesisk översättning och en pil för att markera upp (bra) eller ned (dåligt). Det är dessa översättningar som vi talar om här. Anledningen till att du inte ser dem är troligtvis att du inte har angivit svenska som modersmål. (För övrigt var det mycket kritik mot kursen i kinesiska på Livemochas användarforum. De förklarar ingenting av vad en nybörjare måste kunna beträffande kinesiska tecken och hur de skall skrivas. De använder exakt samma kurs som de använder för engelska, franska etc. Naturligtvis kan inte kinesiska läras ut på samma sätt som franska! Det kan ju vem som helst förstå! ) 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5837 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 18 of 29 06 May 2009 at 12:36pm | IP Logged |
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I know I'm ranting about this but here it goes again:
English phrase: She is closing the curtains. Swedish translations: Hon drar för gardinerna. Click here if you think this translation is helpful. Click here if you think this translation is not helpful. Ja, visst är översättningen rätt... Men "Closing" och "Drar för" är ju HELT OLIKA!! Ingen förklaring ges ang. detta. Svenskaeleven lär sig fel vokabulär och blir förvirrad. The concierge is giving the guest her key. Swedish translations: Portvakterskan lämnar nycklen till kunden. Portvakten ger gästen hennes nyckel. Edited by cordelia0507 on 06 May 2009 at 1:07pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6908 days ago 4250 posts - 5711 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 19 of 29 06 May 2009 at 3:01pm | IP Logged |
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One of the problems is that we really don't know if the Livemocha staff wants us to provide literal (possibly word-for-word) translations, or use everyday speech. We also don't know what the learners will find beneficial.
There are loads of prepositional examples where something "is on the table" and where the Swedish translations vary: är på, ligger på, står på et.c. Would you say that "är på" should be the only accepted translation? I think that most of this will fall into place after having been exposed to "real" content. If "closing the curtains" means "drar för gardinerna" but "closing the door means "stänger dörren", one just has to pay a little attention. It's not the end of the world. That's just the way it is. Languages work differently. However, I'm not entirely sure that a picture-based method is the best one... 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Taka Diglot Groupie China Joined 6091 days ago 47 posts - 48 votes Speaks: Mandarin*, English Studies: Swedish, Portuguese | Message 20 of 29 07 May 2009 at 5:06pm | IP Logged |
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Cordelia, tack, jag såg de översättningarna du talar om efter jag har angivit svenska
som modersmål. Ni som är svenskar ger pöang till dem :) Hej, I am learning Swedish so I can say that I want to know everyday speech, NOT literal translations, but it will be nice to get to know what the words actually mean too. But as Cordelia and Jeff said, "Closing" is not "drar för", and you have various ways of saying "is on the table", they need some more explanations and a simply picture-based method can not do it very well.. I guess learning and reading those sentences just by looking at the pictures (without a English or other translations) could be better. But then there are new problems again.. Jag vet inte... 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5837 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 21 of 29 08 May 2009 at 1:31pm | IP Logged |
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Taka, you are practically a language genius - I can't believe how well you write both English and Swedish from such a very different language backround (with a German person for example I would be a lot less impressed). You haven't got a Swedish parent or some other kind of "cheating" do you? I wish I was that talented!
Anyway, here is another strange one... Where are the books? She is holding them in her arms. Swedish translations: Var är böckerna? Hon håller dem i sina armar. Nobody would say it like the translation above, based on the picture of a woman with her arms full of books. They would say "Hon håller dem i famnen" Sorry I am writing in English and not Swedish. To tell the truth I type much faster in English because I live in the UK and work here... 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Lizzern Diglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5908 days ago 791 posts - 1053 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English Studies: Japanese | Message 22 of 29 12 May 2009 at 4:23pm | IP Logged |
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Their Norwegian course will be just as awful if the current translations are anything to go by :-) I'm pretty new to LiveMocha (took one lesson of Italian and couldn't stand it even as a supplement, it was THAT boring) so at first I thought the Norwegian sentences I was being shown were student-submitted entries as part of a course... If they were they would've been fine, because people make mistakes when they're learning, which then obviously need to be corrected. So I was shocked to find that they're actually making the course with those translations as their starting point!
Some notable highlights include "hun er en jente" (can't teach bokmål without the feminine), "han er en lege" (no articles with professions) and "hun har lys hår" (wrong gender), and these are basic things that need to be taught correctly from very early on so that people don't start making these mistakes in the first place - from what I've seen they're almost impossible to un-learn. Honestly I don't know where they got their translations from (Google Translate, anyone?) but if non-native speakers who make those kinds of mistakes are asked to make a course... I wouldn't want to be learning from anyone with that low a level of grammatical understanding and naturalness in the language, but it's a shame students won't really know they're learning things wrong. I do think some people use this and only this to start with. What to do, though? I mean, the course clearly shouldn't go up as-is... Liz Edited by Lizzern on 12 May 2009 at 4:25pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6908 days ago 4250 posts - 5711 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 23 of 29 12 May 2009 at 5:13pm | IP Logged |
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Yesterday I saw a hilarious "translation" of "twenty-five": "tjugotvå" (22!). How that happened is beyond comprehension.
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| Taka Diglot Groupie China Joined 6091 days ago 47 posts - 48 votes Speaks: Mandarin*, English Studies: Swedish, Portuguese | Message 24 of 29 12 May 2009 at 5:15pm | IP Logged |
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Hej Cordelia, no, I am not"cheating" :) And I wish I would have done better than this,
I have been studying Swedish hard for over a year but I am still not confident when it comes to genuine conversations, and I absolutely need to talk in Swedish more (with a real person instead of staring at my moniter and talking with myself). English definitely helps my Swedish. You Swedes speak English as if you were native, I am so jealous on that! :) Honestly, I don't really know that "She is holding them in her arms" should not be translated that way, but you made me relieved that you are correcting them. @ Liz, the lessons are boring indeed, but those comments by native speakers make the whole program exciting. But you got the point here, students want to learn the correct ways of speaking from the very beginning.. Actually, I think the Livemocha is based on its users - everyone contributes a bit to the language information of their mother tongue. And then for some languages with few native users, this is not a mature enough project. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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